[@OKau] Move from the mailing list to the new OK Forum?

Fri Jun 5 05:45:51 UTC 2015

To be fair I think everyone is just centering around their own context,
which is always cool. What I take from Rosie, Steve and everyone is a
comment on their fairly specific view. When we draw the lens out to cover
more general matters then differing views make an appearance, but it is
really just due to those different centers of perspective.

Despite all of this the world turns in its myriad of ways to make fools of
us all. There is no right perspective, just a sharing of views.

Something positive no matter your viewpoint can be found here:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2015/04/19/cities-arent-great-with-data-could-mike-bloomberg-change-that/

It would be great to find such a sponsor of data projects here in Australia
:)

Hoots!

On Friday, June 5, 2015, Paul Walsh <paulywalsh at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On 5 Jun 2015, at 5:26, Rosie Williams <budgetaus at hotmail.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','budgetaus at hotmail.com');>> wrote:
>
> Thanks for your responses Steve (B) - others also. I think one of the
> problems facing open data is the lack of engagement with the general
> population, lack of awareness of open data etc among the general
> population. To me that drives the demand for open data and supply of
> funding (either to business, charitable or the public purse) so I think
> it's pretty important.
>
> Which is why I've said elsewhere that I don't quite understand the focus
> on the developer community because developers will work on paid projects,
> they only need a pay packet (typically), I don't think they really need to
> be sold on the idea of open data itself. Where there are funded open data
> projects I don't imagine recruiting professional developers is the issue
> that needs to be solved.
>
>
> Rosie, you keep raising this type of argument, and sorry, but it irks me.
> You seem to have a very flat view of 'developers', and even of the general
> public, and maintain a dichotomy between them. By now, I'm not sure what I
> could say to deepen this perspective...
>
> For example, I don't understand how you can reconcile these claims with
> the fact the demand for open data is growing globally, as evidenced by the
> multitude of projects, funding and other initiatives.
>
> There are many interest groups that make up the public, including
> businesses, ad hoc community initiatives, ethnic groups, women, children,
> LGBT, and the list can go on and on as we look at this incredibly complex
> thing we call the general public.
>
> These groups are also constructs, and are made up of all sorts of people
> with all sorts of skills and knowledge: developers, tech-savvy, know about
> open data but don't know how it relates to their life, don't know about
> open data but know that with more transparency thing could be different...
>
> In this world, what does it even mean to 'engage with the general public'?
>
> And when we have engagement, what are the terms on which we 'sell' open
> data to said public? Are we selling open data as a thing in and of itself,
> or, are we selling it as a means to solve other problems in society?
>
> A last point: demand can be created by having the conditions in place that
> allow the demand to occur. Unfortunately, it seems, this does right now
> mean tooling to **do something** with data, and is thus quite a technical
> endeavour. This fact does not exclude non-technical concerns: it allows
> them.
>
>
> On the other hand, if there is no awareness of the value of open data
> projects to entrepreneurs or potential customers or donors then there is no
> demand and therefore no projects.
>
> If the OKAU website & this forum is not intended to sell the idea of open
> data to a non-specialist audience or seek the engagement of the general
> public I just think that needs to be acknowledged as I've always wondered
> whether this apparent lack of public engagement is by accident or design.
>
>
>
> Rosie Williams BA (Sociology)
> ________________________________________
>  NoFibs.com.au <http://nofibs.com.au> - Open Data Reporter | InfoAus.net
> <http://infoaus.net> - Founder and Developer
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
> From: stevage at gmail.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','stevage at gmail.com');>
> Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2015 11:37:08 +1000
> To: okfn-au at lists.okfn.org
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','okfn-au at lists.okfn.org');>
> Subject: Re: [@OKau] Move from the mailing list to the new OK Forum?
>
> On Fri, Jun 5, 2015 at 8:40 AM, Rosie Williams <budgetaus at hotmail.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','budgetaus at hotmail.com');>> wrote:
>
> If all the OKAu events are aimed at experts and all the blog posts that
> come out are suited only to specialist audiences, then how does the general
> public engage with open data/open knowledge in Australia?
>
>
> Probably with tools and platforms built by people like us, and promoted
> through public channels. I'm generally interested in "outreach" that
> involves bringing new people into the open data community and giving them
> the tools and knowledge to do useful things. To get real engagement with
> "the public" around particular tools and platforms is of course a lot of
> work - but something I know some people (not me) find incredibly rewarding.
>
>
> I'm not saying it is wrong to have specialist forums, events and websites
> specific to an expert audience or that everyone needs to do 'outreach'. I'm
> not suggesting either that we can't learn from other countries and I guess
> that is what OKAU is, an implementation of an initiative that began in the
> UK. I'm just trying to clarify what the motives and objectives of OKAU are,
> given the lack of general public engagement that I see.
>
>
> Speaking for myself, I see the primary purpose of OKAU as building an open
> data community. That is, we've done our jobs if there are lots of people
> with skills, knowledge and motivation to produce and use open data, and
> they're working together and efficiently sharing information.
>
> (Someone will probably point out that it's broader than just open *data*,
> of course...)
>
> Steve
>
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-- 
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