[okfn-discuss] Next steps on the Open Knowledge Tagline

Mon Jun 16 20:59:45 UTC 2014

Hey Aaron,

thanks for your reply. You are right I should have given a better response
for why I did not identify with "freeing ideas". I think, because ideas are
already free to my mind - even in the most closed dictatorship people can
have ideas - they might be prohibited to share them or talk about them
openly. So my question would be - how are we actually "freeing ideas" - and
not data, information or knowledge? Or: what are we actually doing with the
ideas as they might already be free my nature?

I found also this popular German song for you - dated back to 1810 or so,
about the freedom of thoughts aka ideas?
 The Thoughts are Free

*The thoughts travel free, no-one can detect them, like shadows they flee
through night to protect them. The cops cannot grill them and hunters can't
kill them: their guns cannot see a thought running free. *

* I think as I choose, my luck's open-ended, but all without clues, so
no-one's offended. My want and desire shall find no denier when they find
the key: That thoughts must be free! *

* And if they'll be locking me up in their dungeon they shall not be
blocking me or my conscience, for thoughts take no orders and will break
through borders and walls with esprit: The thoughts, they are free! *

But what about the process? I mean, currently we have a couple of taglines
on wiki. How do we move forward from here on? How can we come up with a
decision that people agree with or at least accept (because the process was
participatory or democratic?).

Best

Daniela

On 16 June 2014 18:37, Aaron Wolf <wolftune at gmail.com> wrote:

> I could imagine a thing with like some animated pull-down menu option some
> gimmicky thing…
>
> I mean, if it were clear that this tagline was some thing here and there,
> like in the multiple tag-line approach, that'd be different. But if it is
> boldly "the" tagline, there's no way that artists would feel included or
> invited on first impression.
>
> --
> Aaron Wolf
> wolftune.com
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 16, 2014 at 10:29 AM, heath rezabek <heath.rezabek at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Aaron, I also have an open culture focus, and I'd think, "Of course it
>> does.  It'd be absurd to think not."
>>
>> It seems to me that all one would need to do is swap out that word 'data'
>> for your particular event, connection, purpose, moment, etc, to open that
>> dialogue with whoever you're working with.
>>
>> "See how art can change the world."
>>
>> How?  For one, by being open.  And, discuss...
>>
>> - Heath
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 16, 2014 at 11:31 AM, Aaron Wolf <wolftune at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks, Rufus. I agree. The concern was initially about potential shift
>>> in focus and concern about inclusion of the community in the decisions.
>>>
>>> To be clear, I always thought it was great that lots of Open Data stuff
>>> was happening, but I saw "Open Knowledge" as basically including "Free
>>> Culture", and when I think of stuff cultural works like music and art, I
>>> see *zero* place for that in "See how data can change the world". And I
>>> think that will remain the case for everyone who ever sees that tagline.
>>> Nobody will ever see that tagline and think OK has anything directly to do
>>> with free/open art.
>>>
>>> So the initial concern remains: Does "Open Knowledge" include art and
>>> culture? If "See how data…" is even an option, I still have my doubts.
>>> Maybe I was wrong all along and OK was *never* inclusive of those
>>> things… I'm really not honestly sure now.
>>>
>>> Respectfully,
>>> Aaron
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Aaron Wolf
>>> wolftune.com
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jun 16, 2014 at 2:38 AM, Rufus Pollock <rufus.pollock at okfn.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 14 June 2014 16:43, Aaron Wolf <wolftune at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> While everyone has their opinions, if the tag-line that had been
>>>>> originally chosen without so much input had been an actual call-to-action,
>>>>> something actually decent, people might not have bothered complaining.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think "see how data can change the world" is clearly *disliked* by
>>>>> lots (perhaps most) of us, the thing I've found most troubling is that it
>>>>> wasn't scrapped.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I have some experience with this sort of process, and I can tell you
>>>>> this: it is extremely hard to find something everyone likes. The goal needs
>>>>> to instead be to find something that *nobody* hates (and hopefully
>>>>> most people like). The only reason "see how data can change the world"
>>>>> seems to have been included in the running is because it was already there
>>>>> and some people had early prejudice for it. Whether we end up with a main
>>>>> tagline or 3-5 or whatever, "see how" needs to be *omitted.* It's
>>>>> been pointed out by multiple people how passive, distancing, topic-centric,
>>>>> and unclear it is. It doesn't qualify for "nobody hates it" status even if
>>>>> we hesitate to use the word "hate".
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> @Aaron: as you point out a lot of people can have different opinions on
>>>> this topic. I should say, personally, I see a reasonable amount to
>>>> recommend the "See how ..." approach (as Rob Myers points out below). Once
>>>> you have "see how" and you can't repeat knowledge (you're going to prefix
>>>> with that remember!) you end up with a default choice between data and
>>>> information and given the framing of the tagline within "Open Knowledge:
>>>> ..." and potentially the narrative I think there is much in "See how data
>>>> can change the world" - btw I'm not saying there is not much in other
>>>> options, i'm just trying to explain why I think this was kept in on its
>>>> merits :-)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> We can go through the rest and figure out if any options nobody hates.
>>>>> Those are the ones we can move forward with. And I'm not saying just give
>>>>> in to haters, but when reasonable people express things that aren't "it's
>>>>> too fluffy, or it's too chunky" but really express true dislike with
>>>>> explanations and persistence, *then* we *need* to drop the item in
>>>>> question.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I am concerned that some of the original reaction to this *tagline* was
>>>> an (important and valuable) reaction to deeper and more complex things than
>>>> the tagline - i.e. a sense there was some change in identity or focus.
>>>>
>>>> rufus
>>>>
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>>
>>
>> --
>> Heath Rezabek  //  labs.vessel.cc
>> Icarus Interstellar  /  FarMaker Design Corps  //  icarusinterstellar.org
>> Open Knowledge Foundation  /  Texas Ambassador for the OKFn  //  okfn.org
>>
>>
>>
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-- 

Daniela Mattern

Open Data Project Manager | skype: e1aste2000

*Open Knowledge Foundation <http://okfn.org> *

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