[OKFN-NL] [OpenSpending] €278bn through shell companies in Netherlands

Thu Jun 20 21:35:01 UTC 2013

If you are referring to my statement that they are not bound by
governmental rules of nicety, I wasn't referring (in that particular
point) to the KVK, but to those involved in trusts aimed at avoiding
taxation of large sums of money.

My excuses for the lack of clarity, and for any offense,

Cheers, K.

On Thu, June 20, 2013 23:25, Ton Zijlstra wrote:
> That seems an overblown characterisation of the KvK and their actions or
> lack thereof.
> Op 20 jun. 2013 23:04 schreef <k.brzezinska at xs4all.nl> het volgende:
>
>> dear OKFN-ers, and other friends,
>>
>> Hi its Karen.
>>
>> Okay, I have spoken to my pal in the US. He says the SEC won't have info
>> abt those companies unless they have a US branch or operations. One
>> would
>> have to go at it state by state, to find which companies are registered.
>>
>> However, I have now just done a google search of "trusts Netherlands"
>> and
>> came up with a disquieting list of possibilities.
>>
>> I will attach a screen shot because it gave me the willies.
>>
>> Before we go any further, i would like to point out that 'blocking' of
>> an
>> IP address seems like a downright hostile reaction. My question, have
>> any
>> scrapers tried scraping from a TOR address (or similar) to avoid being
>> blocked?
>>
>> I'd also like to point out that people who are used to secreting their
>> info about billions of currency units aren't known for being mild
>> mannered. Just FYI. If we are looking at money that's being laundered,
>> or
>> 'merely' evading taxation, we are not going to be popular. And these
>> folks
>> are not bound by the laws of governmental courtesy, if you get my drift.
>>
>> Having been married for some time to someone who represented monied
>> criminals (and who ended up drifting in that direction himself) I can
>> say:
>> we should keep our eyes open when dealing with these matters.
>>
>> Finally, is there an OKFN protocol? Were I to call these offices,
>> looking
>> for info, do I say I'm a journalist working with the OKFN/ Open Spending
>> project? (I"m sure that would get them to open right up...!) ;-)
>>
>> kind regards,
>>
>> Karen Brzezinska (Amsterdam)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Got it.
>>
>> On Thu, June 20, 2013 20:50, Jonathan Gray wrote:
>> > Hey Karen,
>> >
>> > Very interesting indeed. Out of interest where are you based?
>> >
>> > By following up on the list, I mean:
>> >
>> > 1. Signing up to the OKFN Netherlands and OpenSpending mailing lists
>> here:
>> >
>> > http://lists.okfn.org/mailman/listinfo/openspending
>> > http://lists.okfn.org/mailman/listinfo/okfn-nl
>> >
>> > (I assume that you are on at least one of these in order to have seen
>> my
>> > initial message)
>> >
>> > 2. Replying to my initial email (which you replied to just to me and
>> > others
>> > to our individual addresses), copying in openspending at lists.okfn.org
>> and
>> > okfn-nl at lists.okfn.org. This means that the people on those two lists
>> will
>> > see your reply, which will enable us to have a broader conversation,
>> and
>> > for other people to contribute and to get involved!
>> >
>> > Looking forward to hearing from you!
>> >
>> > All the best,
>> >
>> > Jonathan
>> >
>> >
>> > On 20 June 2013 20:43, <k.brzezinska at xs4all.nl> wrote:
>> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> I really don't mean to laugh. When I worked at the newswires, the
>> >> mythological 'openness' of the Dutch government, so very pro-business
>> >> and
>> >> pro-secrecy, was an open joke. So it comes as no surprise. One of my
>> >> favorite memories from that period was when the CEO of one of the
>> >> bourse-listed Dutch companies said, in response to a question about
>> >> pricing agreements and the possible violation of EU directives by
>> such
>> >> agreements, responded: We like orderly markets. What's wrong with
>> that?
>> >>
>> >> ;-) Uh, gee, nothing.
>> >>
>> >> Getting back to you: I must admit i don't really understand what you
>> >> mean
>> >> by
>> >> following up on the list, much as i'd like to do it. Can you send me
>> a
>> >> link that would explain it to me, if you haven't got the
>> >> time/inclination
>> >> to do so yourself? I learn these things quickly, but the past months
>> >> have
>> >> been absorbed by legal matters, a trip to Kenya and taking on some
>> >> considerable responsibilities at a neighbourhood tv project. Did I
>> >> mention
>> >> DIY-aggro at home? That too. Just the tiniest bit of handholding at
>> this
>> >> point will yield great benefits, I promise.
>> >>
>> >> Cheers, K.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Thu, June 20, 2013 19:16, Jonathan Gray wrote:
>> >%3
>>
>>
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>