[okfn-za] [HacksHackers Cape Town] Open Source in Government

Fri Oct 11 16:43:45 UTC 2013

Adding Kyle and Leo who are both working on this independently.

Charles,  if we accept that perhaps we can never really know the objective
truth, we can create a Wikipedia for networks where relationships can be
added by anyone.  You decide which contributors you trust and rely only on
those relationships. Just like pgp (pretty good privacy) I will trust your
contribution if a person I trust trusts you.

This might also be useful for journalists to find sources.

Adi
On 11 Oct 2013 6:14 PM, "Charles" <chuckra at gmail.com> wrote:

> Adi ****
>
> ** **
>
> This bothered me for  a long time, and it is the thing which prevented me
> from starting it long ago.****
>
> But now I think that’s the press’ job. We just have to give them a tool
> good enough to credibly direct their enquiries. If, for instance, 50 people
> have indicated that Khulubuse Zuma is the nephew of Jacob Zuma, then it’s
> worth a journo’s while to verify it. Same with company directorships, and
> other connection types - even friendships. The journalists or other
> interested parties can go pay whatever fees are necessary to give them a
> definitive answer. We don’t pretend to do that.****
>
> ** **
>
> We could build in:****
>
> **1.       **A simple vote-up/down count, which counts the number of
> people who agree this is true, or untrue, and publish that. ****
>
> **2.       **A simple cellphone token to authenticate the “informant”  once,
> and prevent another attempt by that person on the same link. We don’t store
> the cellphone number after sending the first token- we just store a MD5
> hash of the cell number against that link. So anyone can up/down vote a
> link only once, and they remain almost perfectly anonymous.****
>
> ** **
>
> But what *really* interests me is the math we can do after we have a
> decent relationship graph. We can calculate and rank effective influence,
> centrality, and many other formal metrics which are hugely informative. And
> we can get the cleverest people in the world to do it, if we keep it open.
> ****
>
> ** **
>
> I love this shit.****
>
> ** **
>
> C****
>
> ** **
>
> ---------------------****
>
> Charles Marais****
>
> chuckra at gmail.com****
>
> Skype: chuckra****
>
> ---------------------****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* Adi Eyal [mailto:adi at burgercom.co.za]
> *Sent:* 11 October 2013 12:21
> *To:* Charles
> *Cc:* Robert Elliott; Thoko Madonko; Greg Kempe; okfn-za at lists.okfn.org;
> hackshackers-johannesburg; hackshackers-capetown; odadi
> *Subject:* Re: [okfn-za] [HacksHackers Cape Town] Open Source in
> Government****
>
> ** **
>
> what about verification? How do you know that something is true?****
>
> ** **
>
> Adi****
>
>
> ****
>
> Adi Eyal
> Data Specialist
> phone: +27 78 014 2469
> skype: adieyalcas
> linkedin: http://za.linkedin.com/pub/dir/Adi/Eyal****
>
> ** **
>
> On 11 October 2013 11:01, Charles <chuckra at gmail.com> wrote:****
>
> Robert****
>
> I think it would be worth considering going with the graph databases from
> the start – otherwise the day when we upload the first large chunk(the
> voters’ roll comes to mind J) will be a show-stopper until we pivot. But
> sure, SQL can work for prototypes, as long as you know you’ll be ditching
> it and rewriting…****
>
>  ****
>
> The other point is that a link between people/companies becomes more
> credible the more people “vote it” to be true. It just has to be good
> enough for a journo to follow up – so we should also plan for a
> “link-weight” parameter thingy.****
>
>  ****
>
>  ****
>
> C****
>
>  ****
>
> *From:* Robert Elliott [mailto:robert at graphflow.com]
> *Sent:* 11 October 2013 10:43
> *To:* Thoko Madonko
> *Cc:* Greg Kempe; Adi Eyal; Charles; okfn-za at lists.okfn.org;
> hackshackers-johannesburg; hackshackers-capetown; odadi****
>
>
> *Subject:* Re: [okfn-za] [HacksHackers Cape Town] Open Source in
> Government****
>
>  ****
>
> I think 'crowdsourcing' the data is an excellent idea. Interactions can
> be 'draft' until officially confirmed as and when evidence becomes
> available. Here is a D3 example of what we could end up with (albeit very
> conspiracy-theorist): http://www.whodotheyserve.com/****
>
> From a data perspective, what we need is:****
>
> ·         Entity (person or organisation)****
>
> ·         Interaction (shareholder-in, partner-with, contract-with,
> employee-of, colleague-with, friend-of etc.)****
>
> o    This should include some sort of basis: link or document.****
>
> ·         Entity (person or organisation)****
>
> So we would end up with a interactions graph dataset. This could initially
> be a google spread sheet or a simple db or wiki until it gets large
> enough to warrant a NoSQL graph db.****
>
>  ****
>
> On Fri, Oct 11, 2013 at 10:26 AM, Thoko Madonko <thoko.madonko at gmail.com>
> wrote:****
>
> Dear All****
>
>  ****
>
> I am following the discussion with keen interest. Would there be a way to
> start small - I am thinking given the health reform taking place in SA - a
> 3d picture of who is connected to which medical scheme would be a great
> start! ****
>
>  ****
>
> Let me know if you are keen. I am sure I can find some cash monies to help
> do it. ****
>
>  ****
>
> Thoko****
>
>
> ****
>
> *__________________________________________*****
>
> [image:
> https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-t95JVjwQ9CA/UA05IlbsDbI/AAAAAAAAAEM/VMgnqNjABOc/s314/buscard.jpg]
> ****
>
>  ****
>
>  ****
>
> On 10 October 2013 14:55, Greg Kempe <gregkempe at gmail.com> wrote:****
>
> Charles, I agree, this would be very interesting. I've also thought of
> doing something with the tender database.****
>
>  ****
>
> But I think Adi is right: there's a lot of money to be made with that
> data, and a lot of incentive for people to keep it hidden. The journoswould love it, the business owners less so, so there'd be some friction for
> sure.****
>
>  ****
>
> Greg****
>
>  ****
>
> On 10 October 2013 at 1:50:37 PM, Charles (chuckra at gmail.com<//chuckra at gmail.com>)
> wrote:****
>
> For me, the biggest hit we can make in open data in SA is the companies
> office. If you look at what the NZ govt<http://cat.open.org.nz/tag/companies/>,
> for instance, has done, we have a long way to go. But I dream of being able
> to show a dynamic D3 <http://d3js.org/> graph connecting all our
> politicians to their family members and the companies in which they are
> involved.****
>
>  ****
>
> What are the chances of getting a nice REST service running at the CIPC<http://www.cipc.co.za/>,
> where anyone can query. We’d give journalists a field day…****
>
>  ****
>
> Charles****
>
>  ****
>
> *From:* okfn-za-bounces at lists.okfn.org [mailto:
> okfn-za-bounces at lists.okfn.org] *On Behalf Of* Robert Elliott
> *Sent:* 09 October 2013 23:08
> *To:* Adi Eyal
> *Cc:* okfn-za at lists.okfn.org; hackshackers-johannesburg at googlegroups.com;
> hackshackers-capetown at googlegroups.com; odadi at googlegroups.com
> *Subject:* Re: [okfn-za] [HacksHackers Cape Town] Open Source in
> Government****
>
>  ****
>
> Saw this today: Department of Basic Education Bans Open Source****
>
>  ****
>
>
> http://dkeats.com/index.php?action=viewsingle&module=blog&postid=gen21Srv8Nme0_40332_1381256759&userid=7050120123
> ****
>
>  ****
>
> And Delphi?!????!!****
>
>  ****
>
> Shocker. ****
>
> —
> Sent from Mailbox <https://www.dropbox.com/mailbox> for iPhone****
>
>  ****
>
> On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 4:19 PM, Adi Eyal <adi at burgercom.co.za> wrote:****
>
> Hi Niki
>
> On 5 August 2013 16:05, Niki Moore <nikimoore007 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > With reference to my previous reply.... I switched over to Linux a few
> > months ago, and I am battling with it, it's not as easy as Microsoft and
> > requires me to phone my support desk almost weekly to find out how to
> > install programmes... and there are some of my appliances, like my
> scanner,
> > that do not support Linux. There is a scarcity of technical support for
> > people who are not computer programmers who have gone onto Linux. I have
> > just been having a chat with such a chap, who was telling me that as the
> use
> > of OSS increases, so companies are forced to offer support, but unless
> you
> > have some basic programming knowledge, Linux is extremely frustrating.
> Can
> > you imagine your average civil servant handling the programming required
> to
> > open source?
>
> I feel your pain. Funnily enough, I just bought a laptop which came
> with Windows 8. I battled for about an hour trying to figure it out
> and gave up in disgust. However, you're right, Linux is somewhat
> difficult for non-techies. Having said that, my sexagenarian motherin
> in law has been using Ubuntu for about a year now. She doesn't even
> know that she's using it. I'm not trying to sell Linux on the desktop.
> For most people used to Windows, it is a difficult switch. I find
> MacOS difficult too, but it's mostly because it is a new interface.
> Linux though is not the only open source system around. There is lot's
> of software that is opensource which runs on Windows.
>
> More importantly, bespoke software should be written as open source -
> there is no reason why software which is built specifically for a
> government department should be kept closed. Once built, it should be
> shareable with other departments with no fee (except for installation
> and support).
>
> One last thing - I didn't mention why I thought that the open data
> groups were a good avenue for this initiative. Open data by itself is
> a technical area which doesn't interest most people. If we pair open
> data with open government or active citizenry, we have a much more
> powerful tool to change society. This project is an example of how
> that can happen. Collecting data from government departments is the
> first piece of the puzzle.
>
> Adi
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 3:55 PM, Adi Eyal <adi at burgercom.co.za> wrote:
> >>
> >> They refuse to response to my PAIA requests. They have an open data
> >> policy - they also administer Microsoft licences valuing over a
> >> R100,000,000. I would like policy documents translated to real action.
> >>
> >> Adi
> >>
> >> On 5 August 2013 15:44, Niki Moore <nikimoore007 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > Why don't you ask the SITA? They announced in their congress last year
> >> > that
> >> > they are moving to open-source, so they should have an idea of the
> spend
> >> > of
> >> > each department.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 3:16 PM, Adi Eyal <adi at burgercom.co.za> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> Hi All
> >> >>
> >> >> I'm working on a personal project which these groups may find
> >> >> interesting. I'd like to build a case for why moving government
> >> >> departments to using open source software makes economic sense. I'm
> >> >> doing this by laboriously contacting each government department and
> >> >> asking them what software they use and how much they pay for it.
> >> >>
> >> >> Yes I know - I may be a little idealistic and a touch naive, but I'm
> >> >> not trying to argue the philosophical merits of why open source
> >> >> software may be better than proprietary software.
> >> >>
> >> >> My logic is simply:
> >> >>
> >> >> If government spends Rx billion annually importing proprietary
> >> >> software and they rather redirect that money to the local software
> >> >> community for installation, customisation, support and hosting then
> we
> >> >> can create Y new jobs.
> >> >>
> >> >> It's a lot of work but hopefully I can convince a few more people to
> >> >> help me. I have data from 5 departments so far with a total annual
> >> >> spend of over R26m.
> >> >>
> >> >> I would really appreciate your help. Collecting this information is
> >> >> time consuming. I plan to collect information across all spheres of
> >> >> government which you can imagine is a mammoth task. Any contribution
> -
> >> >> no matter how small would definitely ease the burden.
> >> >>
> >> >> If you want more information - have a look at this link:
> >> >> https://github.com/adieyal/gov-software-audit
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Just one caveat - this project is not about complaining about
> >> >> Microsoft or snide comments about whether government is useless,
> >> >> inefficient or incompetent. I am an idealist and I prefer a naively
> >> >> optimistic approach. Even if the project fails (and the odds are
> >> >> against it), I think it is a worthwhile cause and will add another
> >> >> voice to why this is a good thing.
> >> >>
> >> >> Comments welcome.
> >> >>
> >> >> Adi
> >> >>
> >> >> --
> >> >> Adi Eyal
> >> >> Data Specialist
> >> >> phone: +27 78 014 2469
> >> >> skype: adieyalcas
> >> >> linkedin: http://za.linkedin.com/pub/dir/Adi/Eyal
> >> >>
> >> >> --
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> >> >> an
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> >> >> To post to this group, send an email to
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> >> >> To view this discussion on the web, visit
> >> >>
> >> >>
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/hackshackers-capetown/CAEQY0Y7dUmS2yTVQQ4uUH_%3DU4STfWQBSOkNgDF4SUhbVoBtVUQ%40mail.gmail.com
> .
> >> >>
> >> >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
> >> > 7th Avenue Communications
> >> > 031 - 205-8331
> >> > 083 - 758-4483
> >> >
> >> > --
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> .
> >> >
> >> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Adi Eyal
> >> Data Specialist
> >> phone: +27 78 014 2469
> >> skype: adieyalcas
> >> linkedin: http://za.linkedin.com/pub/dir/Adi/Eyal
> >>
> >> --
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> >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
> an
> >> email to hackshackers-capetown+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
> >> To post to this group, send an email to
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> >> To view this discussion on the web, visit
> >>
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> .
> >>
> >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
> > 7th Avenue Communications
> > 031 - 205-8331
> > 083 - 758-4483
> >
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
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> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> > email to hackshackers-capetown+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
> > To post to this group, send an email to
> > hackshackers-capetown at googlegroups.com.
> > To view this discussion on the web, visit
> >
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/hackshackers-capetown/CAE02g-PLGgsFZq4BurZxVUG_0n2yjBmwdNd5OtmL%3DThsui%3DSkQ%40mail.gmail.com
> .
> >
> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Adi Eyal
> Data Specialist
> phone: +27 78 014 2469
> skype: adieyalcas
> linkedin: http://za.linkedin.com/pub/dir/Adi/Eyal
>
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>
> -- ****
>
> [image:
> https://graphflow-app-data.s3.amazonaws.com/images/logosmall.png?Signature=nKJJ5zJvKf7nTyw7HQJ6Gt32e04%3D&Expires=1380108276&AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAJXFG65FWVJBIYVLA]<http://www.graphflow.com/>
> ****
>
> Robert Elliott | Co-founder****
>
> robert at graphflow.com | +27 71 882 4222 | @greenafrican<http://twitter.com/greenafrican>
> ****
>
>
> GraphFlow | Product, user and content recommendations
> www.graphflow.com | @graphflow <http://twitter.com/graphflow>****
>
>  ****
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> ** **
>
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