[Open-access] more open access particle physics

Tue Sep 25 12:47:52 UTC 2012

On Tue, Sep 25, 2012 at 1:38 PM, Mike Taylor <mike at indexdata.com> wrote:

> On 25 September 2012 13:28, Ross Mounce <ross.mounce at gmail.com> wrote:
> > I do of course understand that Nuclear Physics B has a higher Journal
> Impact
> > Factor than Acta Physica Polonica B. And so I appreciate Mike's points
> and
> > am looking forward to your blog post on this.
> >
> > BUT, subtly, it doesn't actually answer the question I asked:
> >
> > Does Nuclear Physics B really provide >3 times more added value than a
> > publication in Acta Physica Polonica B?
>
> The market says: yes.
>

I'm hoping the UK market will soon change once the RCUK Open Access mandate
comes in. *Hopefully* although admittedly that is just speculation for now,
there will be some pressure on academics to look at price and openness
rather than just JIF/glory.

>
> > The Journal Impact Factor is something unrelated to the intrinsic value
> of
> > the services provided by the publishers: copyediting, arranging peer
> review,
> > providing typeset HTML, PDF & dead-tree versions.
>
> If only that were true. Actually, copyediting (when it happens at all)
> and arranging peer-review (which is both arranged and carried out by
> unpaid volunteers) are not areas where publishers make any significant
> contribution. What publishers do provide -- the thing they sell -- is
> the brand name. A paper in Nuclear Physics B is like a Lacoste shirt.
> It's no better in intrinsics than than one made by a different label,
> but it costs more because it has the prestige.
>

Agreed, publishers are mostly selling brand names and prestige associated
with long-distant glories of past publications in the same brand. I was
*hoping* academics might be able to see past this, if not now, then maybe
sometime in the near future.

>
> (This is why Bjorn Brembs thinks the only way out of this mess, in the
> end, will be to destroy the entire journal system. I am not sure that
> I disagree.)
>

Likewise I'm not sure I want the entire destruction of the journal system,
that might be too much. But greater focus on prices and REAL services
provided might be nice.

>
> > The quality of work
> > provided by the authors is what generates citations, that drive the
> > calculation of the JIF. This is NOTHING to do with the publishers and
> their
> > vessels for articles (journals), except for the self-reinforcement
> effect of
> > articles appearing in high JIF journals, that are perceived justly (or
> not)
> > to be better to cite than articles in lower JIF journals.
>
> You do persist in talking like a rational being.
>

Thanks

>
> > I appreciate the careerism involved and it's supposed reliance on Journal
> > Impact Factor, but according to this recent Nature piece
> > (http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v489/n7415/full/489177a.html)
> that may
> > not be as true as many academics think it is.
>
> The tragedy is, it doesn't actually matter whether it's true or not.
> So long as people think it is, they will emasculate their work to get
> it into Science or Nature, and they will pay three times as much to be
> in Nuclear Physics B as in Acta Physica Polonica B?
>
> In other words, it's all about perception.
>

Agreed!

>
> Which is probably good news, in the long run, because it means it can
> be addressed by education. And also of course by Planck's Principle.
>
> > Let's not make the excuses for people. This list is here to ask the tough
> > questions :)
>
> Yes. But you can't then complain if you don't like the answers!
>
>
I'm not complaining! Keep it up - I enjoy discussion, and I hope others on
this list benefit from this elucidation of thought processes.

Ross

-- 
-- 
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Ross Mounce
PhD Student & Panton Fellow
Fossils, Phylogeny and Macroevolution Research Group
University of Bath, 4 South Building, Lab 1.07
http://about.me/rossmounce
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