[Open-access] [open-science] Elsevier: some facts, by Tim Gowers

Wed Apr 30 20:59:15 UTC 2014

On 04/30/2014 08:12 PM, Peter Murray-Rust wrote:
> I separate the two issues:
>
> 1 are Elsevier (or anyone else) making inappropriate profits or 
> charging excessive amounts?
> 2 are Elsevier (or anyone else) :
>   * failing to deliver what was paid for
>   * apparently breaking contracts or laws
>   * asserting ownership or control inappropriately
>
> I will support people on (1) but my main concern is (2).

Well, just for argument's sake, lets assume we fix 2, but not 1. What 
have we gained?

* Elsevier (not the other publishers) deliver whatever it is they are 
being paid 5kUS$ per paper for. Hard to even imagine what that could be, 
when identical services can be had for 100US$ per paper.
* Elsevier stops breaking contracts/laws
* Elsevier actually fixes their software, such that the last three lines 
of fine print at the bottom of each paper are displayed correctly.

Honestly, if that change were to happen tomorrow, I wouldn't even notice 
it, other than by the name Elsevier appearing less often in my Twitter 
stream... and even that I probably wouldn't even notice until in about 2 
years when I might, perhaps, wonder about the weird silence. :-)

On the other hand, let's see what would happen in the very hypothetical 
case that we fixed 1 but not 2, by paying all publishers, not just 
Elsevier only their actual costs (which we now know lie somewhere along 
the SciELO costs of ~100$ per paper):

*We have about 9.8bUS$ every single year to fix everything else that is 
currently broken. Then, nobody cares anymore what the fomer publisher 
Elsevier once did.

Problem solved.

Thus, as I wrote before, I still don't understand what gets people so 
worked up about Elsevier in particular. Once we spend the money for the 
right services, Elsevier and any publisher can stand on their head 
screaming and breathing fire and breaking laws all they want, nobody cares.

Maybe I can understand what this is all about, if someone can explain to 
me what giving Elsevier a rap on the knuckles should actually accomplish 
in the grand scheme of things?

Cheers,

Bjoern
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