[Open-access] [open-science] Open Science Anthology published

Tue Jan 28 17:37:12 UTC 2014

I'm perfectly happy for Heather to enjoy her assumed role of being a voice in the wilderness. She's entitled to it.

Jan

On 28 Jan 2014, at 17:15, Mike Taylor <mike at indexdata.com> wrote:

> All right, folks. I do believe we've crossed over into troll-feeding now.
> 
> I for one will now try to resist SIWOTI syndrome on this thread. Let's
> just agree to let Heather have the last word, then it can all be over.
> 
> -- Mike.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 28 January 2014 17:08, Mr. Puneet Kishor <punk.kish at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> On Jan 28, 2014, at 9:01 AM, Heather Morrison <Heather.Morrison at uottawa.ca>
>> wrote:
>> 
>> I guess my summary was premature...(sigh)
>> 
>> On 2014-01-28, at 11:11 AM, "Mr. Puneet Kishor" <punk.kish at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> 
>> On Jan 28, 2014, at 7:59 AM, Klaus Graf <klausgraf at googlemail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> 1.      The resemblance between CC-BY and the BOAI definition is
>>> superficial in nature. It is particularly important for open access
>>> advocates to be aware that CC licenses, including CC-BY, do not mean that
>>> works must be made available free of charge. CC-BY policy has a huge,
>>> potentially systemic loophole: the possibility of re-enclosure. What is
>>> given freely today with a CC-BY license could easily be available solely
>>> through sale from Elsevier or services like RightsLink down the road.
>>> 
>> 
>> No evidence for this. Nearly all CC-BY works are available free of cost. CC
>> could clarify that re-enclosure in the digital context isn't allowed.
>> 
>> 
>> Indeed. The license very clearly states that you, the licensee, "may not
>> apply legal terms or technological measures that legally restrict others
>> from doing anything the license permits."
>> (http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/deed.en_US)
>> 
>> 
>> Two comments:
>> 
>> CC would have to have the agreement of the Creative Commons community to
>> change the licenses to prevent re-enclosure. From time to time I participate
>> in the CC community list and have raised the question about CC and free of
>> charge. The short answer is that there are many people in the Creative
>> Commons community for whom freedom means freedom to put up a paywall and
>> charge for works. Consider the difference between open source software,
>> where the code is free for anyone to manipulate, but software creators are
>> free to charge for the software, and open access with its "free of charge".
>> Klaus, I very much encourage you to sign up for the CC community discussion
>> and check in with them about this question:
>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-community
>> 
>> The licensee "may not apply legal terms or technological measures..." refers
>> to applying legal terms or adding TPMs to the work per se. There is nothing
>> to stop a downstream user from putting up a paywall before you get to the
>> work. Indeed, it would not be possible to do this, as most of us need to go
>> through a paywall to connect to the internet (whether we or someone else is
>> paying).  We are already seeing that people are using articles to compile
>> books for sale - people have to pay to get the book.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Perhaps it was another case of premature summary, but you completely missed
>> the subsequent para in my email where I wrote, "Unless all copies of the
>> work vanish from the face of the earth except for the ones remaining in the
>> vault of an evil publisher who then decides to charge for access to the
>> vault, what Heather states above is not possible. And, even in the unlikely
>> scenario I describe, once someone pays for access to the vault and then
>> downloads the work, that work is once again free like the original."
>> 
>> Indeed, if I download your CC BY work, I have all the right in the world (no
>> matter how misplaced one may think it is) to charge for that work. On the
>> other hand, others have all the right in the world to ignore my offering and
>> get your work directly from you or from other sources completely free if it
>> is still available. The only reason a sane person would pay me for an
>> otherwise freely available work is if I add something of value to that work.
>> 
>> 
>> Puneet.
>> 
>> 
>> 
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