[Open-access] [open-science] Elsevier: some facts, by Tim Gowers

Fri May 2 13:32:34 UTC 2014

In the UK it's the Copyright Licensing Agency that higher education
institutions pay for a license to copy/re-use work for educational use. In
2013 the CLA had an income of £7,872,449 (
https://www.cla.co.uk/data/pdfs/accounts/cla_statutory_accounts_year_to_2013.pdf,
p.1). Not all of that was from educational institutions, but a lot of it
was. Another few million pounds that is only spend because the original
work wasn't openly licensed....

Stuart

On 2 May 2014 14:08, Fabiana Kubke <mf.kubke at gmail.com> wrote:

> That is correct, Tom. There is a substantial amount that goes into
> licencing. I don't know how that is dealt elsewhere, but at the University
> of Auckland those licences do not come out of the libraries budget. (which
> is why they don't show in the libraries' expenditures). One would need to
> find out for different institutions what office is in charge of negotiating
> and paying for Copyright Clearing house costs. Although I would suspect
> that even with a Freedom of Information request the actual costs would be
> very hard to disclose.
> -F
>
>
> On Sat, May 3, 2014 at 12:26 AM, Tom Olijhoek <tom.olijhoek at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> So it seems that apart from subscription fees a large amount of money is
>> spend by universities on re-use rights for education. And the situation is
>> far from transparent because different countries have different rules and
>> interpretations.
>> It is not clear to me whether the data that we have seen up to now
>> include those extra fees.
>> Obviously if we are trying to get an overview of publication costs per
>> country we have to include these.
>> As Michelle said  it would be very good to gather all the data in one
>> spot for easy access.
>> An overview could be on the open access website, and the raw data on
>> Figshare.
>> I can make time to help with the coordination
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, May 2, 2014 at 1:28 PM, Fabiana Kubke <mf.kubke at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> TPM: Technological protection measure != TMR= Technological Murray Rust
>>>
>>> Now careful, peter, CC0 is a TLA :)
>>> So says MFK.... :)
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, May 2, 2014 at 11:19 PM, Peter Murray-Rust <pm286 at cam.ac.uk>wrote:
>>>
>>>> TPM = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Platform_Module ??  I
>>>> assume (roughly == Digital Rights Management DRM)
>>>> TPP is specific to Pacific. The US has reinvented this as TTIP for
>>>> Europe.
>>>>
>>>> All these TLAs scare me and they act directly against Open
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, May 2, 2014 at 12:02 PM, Fabiana Kubke <mf.kubke at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> And by TMR I meant TPM - I am conflating TPM and PMR! :)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, May 2, 2014 at 10:56 PM, Fabiana Kubke <mf.kubke at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> New zealand does not have fair use - it has fair dealing. Fair use in
>>>>>> the US (and I think Canada) allow I think for 10% reproduction of
>>>>>> copyrighted material for "fair use".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The way this was explained to me by my copyright officer is that for
>>>>>> at least some works the education provisions of the copyright act are below
>>>>>> the 10% reproduction allowed by fair use so we pay to get the 10%
>>>>>> allowance.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When libraries buy serial subscriptions (or textbooks), sometimes the
>>>>>> contracts have included the reuse of the material for educational purposes
>>>>>> (eg in students lecture notes, class slides etc). Some material we purchase
>>>>>> does not include this allowance.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The university purchases several licences, to the movie industry, the
>>>>>> recording industry and the copyright body (I think equivalent to the
>>>>>> Clearing House in the US and Canada) that extends the allowance for
>>>>>> reproduction for educational use - in essence letting us reach (legally)
>>>>>> the 10% (which ouf course US already has through fair use!)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If I estimate correctly the UoAuckland would be paying somewhere
>>>>>> between 1-2 M NZD p.a. for that privilege. We are lucky that our copyright
>>>>>> law has other useful allowances (Like breaking TMR for legal purposes)
>>>>>> which saves us a lot of money, althought he TransPacific Partnership
>>>>>> agreement may change that . BUt that is a diff story :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hope that clarifies
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, May 2, 2014 at 10:01 PM, Tom Olijhoek <tom.olijhoek at gmail.com
>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri, May 2, 2014 at 11:52 AM, Peter Murray-Rust <pm286 at cam.ac.uk>wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Fri, May 2, 2014 at 10:15 AM, Fabiana Kubke <mf.kubke at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I am a bit late to the discussion - but if anyone is interested
>>>>>>>>> there is interesting data on library expenditures in New Zealand and
>>>>>>>>> Australia here http://statistics.caul.edu.au/inst_data.php
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You're not late... :-) this is very welcome.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  If I read hte data correctly, New Zealand spends about 50 million
>>>>>>>>> p.a. (NZ Dollars) in serial subscriptions. This does not include the
>>>>>>>>> copyright licencing fees that allow the reuse for education (as far as I
>>>>>>>>> understand).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Can you expand on the re-use fees? This is an additional cost to
>>>>>>>> subscriptions. Re-use payments are at least as problematic as
>>>>>>>> subscriptions. But even harder to get a handle on. (?more FOIs?)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I would think that copyright law always includes fair use policy
>>>>>>> which applies especially to use for educational purposes?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> open-science mailing list
>>>>>>>> open-science at lists.okfn.org
>>>>>>>> https://lists.okfn.org/mailman/listinfo/open-science
>>>>>>>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.okfn.org/mailman/options/open-science
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Tom Olijhoek
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> coordinator @ccess open access working group  at OKF
>>>>>>> DOAJ  member of Advisory Board
>>>>>>> freelance advisor for the WorldBank Publishing Group
>>>>>>> TEL +(31)645540804
>>>>>>> SKYPE tom.olijhoek
>>>>>>> Twitter   @ccess
>>>>>>> LinkedIn  http://nl.linkedin.com/in/tomolijhoek/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> M Fabiana Kubke
>>>>>> Chair Advisory Panel Creative Commons Aotearoa New Zealand<http://www.creativecommons.org.nz/>
>>>>>> Department of Anatomy | University of Auckland | New Zealand
>>>>>> (+64) 9 373-7599 Ext 86002 | (+64)9 923 6002 (direct) | Mobile: (+64)
>>>>>> 210 437 121
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Skype: superfabs | http://twitter.com/Kubke |
>>>>>> http://twitter.com/DrKupcake | http://blogs.plos.org/mindthebrain/ |
>>>>>> http://kubke.wordpress.com |
>>>>>> http://buildingblogsofscience.wordpress.com |
>>>>>> http://sciblogs.co.nz/building-blogs-of-science |
>>>>>> http://popscinz.wordpress.com | http://talkingteaching.wordpress.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> M Fabiana Kubke
>>>>> Chair Advisory Panel Creative Commons Aotearoa New Zealand<http://www.creativecommons.org.nz/>
>>>>> Department of Anatomy | University of Auckland | New Zealand
>>>>> (+64) 9 373-7599 Ext 86002 | (+64)9 923 6002 (direct) | Mobile: (+64)
>>>>> 210 437 121
>>>>>
>>>>> Skype: superfabs | http://twitter.com/Kubke |
>>>>> http://twitter.com/DrKupcake | http://blogs.plos.org/mindthebrain/ |
>>>>> http://kubke.wordpress.com |
>>>>> http://buildingblogsofscience.wordpress.com |
>>>>> http://sciblogs.co.nz/building-blogs-of-science |
>>>>> http://popscinz.wordpress.com | http://talkingteaching.wordpress.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Peter Murray-Rust
>>>> Reader in Molecular Informatics
>>>> Unilever Centre, Dep. Of Chemistry
>>>> University of Cambridge
>>>> CB2 1EW, UK
>>>> +44-1223-763069
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> M Fabiana Kubke
>>> Chair Advisory Panel Creative Commons Aotearoa New Zealand<http://www.creativecommons.org.nz/>
>>> Department of Anatomy | University of Auckland | New Zealand
>>> (+64) 9 373-7599 Ext 86002 | (+64)9 923 6002 (direct) | Mobile: (+64)
>>> 210 437 121
>>>
>>> Skype: superfabs | http://twitter.com/Kubke |
>>> http://twitter.com/DrKupcake | http://blogs.plos.org/mindthebrain/ |
>>> http://kubke.wordpress.com | http://buildingblogsofscience.wordpress.com|
>>> http://sciblogs.co.nz/building-blogs-of-science |
>>> http://popscinz.wordpress.com | http://talkingteaching.wordpress.com
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Tom Olijhoek
>> Codex Consult
>> www.codexconsult.eu
>>  coordinator @ccess open access working group  at OKF
>> DOAJ  member of Advisory Board
>> freelance advisor for the WorldBank Publishing Group
>> TEL +(31)645540804
>> SKYPE tom.olijhoek
>>  Twitter   @ccess
>> LinkedIn  http://nl.linkedin.com/in/tomolijhoek/
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> M Fabiana Kubke
> Chair Advisory Panel Creative Commons Aotearoa New Zealand<http://www.creativecommons.org.nz/>
> Department of Anatomy | University of Auckland | New Zealand
> (+64) 9 373-7599 Ext 86002 | (+64)9 923 6002 (direct) | Mobile: (+64) 210
> 437 121
>
> Skype: superfabs | http://twitter.com/Kubke | http://twitter.com/DrKupcake|
> http://blogs.plos.org/mindthebrain/ | http://kubke.wordpress.com |
> http://buildingblogsofscience.wordpress.com |
> http://sciblogs.co.nz/building-blogs-of-science |
> http://popscinz.wordpress.com | http://talkingteaching.wordpress.com
>
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