[open-archaeology] [Antiquist] Re: Heritage Method Store Proposal

Federico Morando federico.morando at polito.it
Thu Sep 23 15:10:16 UTC 2010


Dear all,

I'll be there (SkypeID: fedemuras) at 6 PM (CEST).

Best,

Federico


On 09/23/2010 04:40 PM, Anthony Beck wrote:
> Dear Federico and all,
>
> I'm all for crowd-sourcing and community engagement at whatever level. 
> Many of these things tie into the aspirations of the OKF as they 
> require open access to data, concepts and knowledge repositories. The 
> common aim is to get an active community behind the initiatives.
>
> May I encourage you all to come into the 5pm skype meeting this 
> afternoon to discusss these topics
>
> Best
>
> Ant
>
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 3:34 PM, Federico Morando 
> <federico.morando at gmail.com <mailto:federico.morando at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     Dear David and Cameron, dear all,
>
>     thanks for your kind feedback and apologies for my original
>     largely off-topic message: I admit that the link with the topic
>     post was at most weak... my point, in fact, was that some simple
>     technologies and methodologies could favor the kind of interaction
>     with amateurs and enthusiasts that I was describing. Hence, I was
>     pointing out that individuating these technologies could have been
>     a nice by-product of the method store.
>
>     I agree with your suggestion: let's keep these things separate. I
>     will be happy to go on discussing these issues on the
>     [open-archaeology] list, if you agree, and I would suggest
>     labeling this topic as "crowd-sourcing archaeological data". [I
>     can think about various, frequently very different, kinds of
>     "crowd-sourcing", but I don't want to discuss them under the
>     "Heritage Method Store Proposal": I've already done enough
>     off-topic discussion! ;-)]
>
>     Stefano, do you think that this discussion is worth the creation
>     of a pad like the following:
>     http://archeo.okfnpad.org/crowdsource-archaeo-data
>     ? (I hope that your answer is "Yes", because I know that you're
>     very sensitive to issues related to user generated content and the
>     like.)
>     I think that we could already start populating this pad with
>     interesting points, since I definitely agree with Cameron about
>     the reasons because of which a pilot related to ancient coins
>     could be appropriate (and I would be happy to expand these points
>     with specific examples).
>
>     Best,
>
>     Federico
>
>
>     On 09/23/2010 08:47 AM, Cameron Neylon wrote:
>>     Dear All
>>
>>     Just to give some context, my connection with this is that I’m
>>     helping out  the DART project with advice on data management, web
>>     infrastructure and how best to run an “open project”. My
>>     background is really in structural biology so I’m seeing this
>>     from an outsiders perspective on the technical side. One of my
>>     other interests is how to truly engage the wider community in
>>     research efforts (see the most recent slideshow at
>>     http://slideshare.net/cameronneylon for a recent rant on the
>>     subject). So this discussion is very close to my heart.
>>
>>     I find the idea of a collective coin sharing side quite
>>     compelling from a number of perspectives. It does seem like a
>>     very good case where there is a community and there is a
>>     motivation to share information. It could also provide a good
>>     test bed for wider sharing of finds (my impression is that there
>>     is already a community that shares information here quite a lot)
>>     and also photos of archaeological significance (thinking crop for
>>     example). There is also a possible engagement activity here with
>>     taking high quality photographic equipment to meets to help
>>     people record their finds according to best practice I would guess.
>>
>>     It would be very interesting to share for instance images of
>>     coins, the location of finds, and the provenance trail. I am
>>     guessing that there is significant swapping between collections
>>     and helping people to track that via the passing on of records
>>     could be very interesting. I would also imagine that people are a
>>     bit uncomfortable with sharing the location of finds (and there
>>     are probably both good and bad reasons for that) but it would be
>>     a very interesting thing to probe. If it encouraged a bit more
>>     recording of the discovery and recovery process that could
>>     presumably hardly be a bad thing. It would be worthwhile in this
>>     regard to talk to the Galaxy Zoo people as they have some
>>     infrastructure to support this kind of thing.
>>
>>     I agree this is quite separate to a method store and its good to
>>     keep separate things separate. I can see how connections would
>>     form in the future but it would likely be better to let them
>>     evolve on their own in the first instance. I would encourage you
>>     to think about how to take these ideas forward tho.
>>
>>     Hope this is helpful.
>>
>>     Cheers
>>
>>     Cameron
>>
>>
>>
>>     On 22/09/2010 19:23, "david stott" <davstott at gmail.com
>>     <http://davstott@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>          Federico:
>>         I entirely agree- this has been something I've been thinking
>>         about quite a lot recently and am really keen to get started
>>         on soon. It is, however something quite different from the
>>         method store i think.
>>
>>         The idea that we can enrich our records with information from
>>         amatuer archaeologists and other interested people is one
>>         that a lot of archaeologists I've dicsussed it with seem
>>         quite sceptical about- but I think the idea that we can
>>         crowd-source archaeological data has a lot of advantages and
>>         could be a very powerful resource- especially in areas where
>>         there are not the curatorial resources to manage cultural
>>         heritage effectively. It is something that came up at the
>>         AARG conference recently and that Anthony Beck, Oscar Aldred,
>>         I and others discussed fairly extensively over the weekend.
>>         I'm busy tonight but would be delighted to discuss how´we can
>>         do more in future!
>>
>>         Best,
>>
>>         David
>>
>>
>>         On 22 September 2010 16:50, Federico Morando
>>         <federico.morando at gmail.com
>>         <http://federico.morando@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>             Dear All,
>>
>>             I would like to add a perspective about this interesting
>>             topic: as a by-product of this (admittedly quite
>>             ambitious) project, some simple methodologies (and
>>             possibly some related how-to) could be recommended to
>>             various hobbyist and amateurs (e.g. coin collectors)
>>             wanting to share information online.
>>
>>             In fact, this suggestion comes from the fact that I'm
>>             interested in these topics from two points of view: as a
>>             researcher working on public sector information (and
>>             content) related issues from a multidisciplinary point of
>>             view (law, technology & economics), taking into account
>>             the possibilities of interactions between information
>>             held by - say - public universities and user generated
>>             content; as a ancient coin collector (with a specific
>>             interest in relationships between amateurs and
>>             professionals and in legal schemes trying to minimize
>>             abuses and looting, maximizing the circulation of
>>             information: e.g. the portable antiquities scheme in UK
>>             and relates norms).
>>
>>             For instance, coin collectors frequently share online
>>             pictures and other infos about their collections, but
>>             they tend to do so ignoring (at least in part) best
>>             practices and/or standards which could help in making a
>>             scientific use of these pieces of information
>>             (nonetheless, I think that today websites such as
>>             http://wildwinds.com/ may help archaeologists without a
>>             strong numismatic background in identifying ancient
>>             coins). The kind of how-to which could help coin
>>             collectors making their information more usable for
>>             researchers includes, for instance, best practices to add
>>             semantic information to online collections of pictures of
>>             ancient coins (RDF related technologies, such as RDFa,
>>             ontologies and dictionaries, etc.).
>>
>>             Similarly, exposing some information about their
>>             findings, also archaeologist could sometimes benefit from
>>             interactions with amateurs: for instance, I have some
>>             friends working as archaeologist and they had to admit
>>             more than once that I know more than them (or their
>>             colleagues on a given excavation) about certain kinds of
>>             coins (e.g. late Roman bronzes or Celtic coins of
>>             northern Italy). That happens simply because I'm
>>             specialized on a very narrow subset of potentially
>>             archaeologically relevant knowledge, but this already
>>             allowed me to casually help one of them in identifying a
>>             worn coin simply looking at a picture, while my friend
>>             did not have many clues to start its identification (in
>>             fact, to me that flat bronze disk was clearly a
>>             Republican Roman as, but from the stratigraphic
>>             information one would have been pushed to think about
>>             medieval coins...).
>>             [There is interesting research going on in various fields
>>             about crowd-sourcing and I think that - up to a certain
>>             points - something could be done also in archaeology...
>>             it has been done for complex mathematical problems, but
>>             NASA also did that with a certain success for identifying
>>             craters on Mars, for instance...]
>>
>>             So, to make a long story short, I think it could be nice
>>             to think about methodologies (and software tools)
>>             creating a bridge between professional archaeologist and
>>             various kind of amateurs. More specifically, I would
>>             suggest to do some pilot work on ancient coins, simply
>>             because there are big communities of coin collectors
>>             online, because researchers in this field always used the
>>             work of collectors quite intensively (many well known
>>             ancient coins catalogues have been written by collectors
>>             in the past), but also because I would happily volunteer
>>             as collector participating in such a pilot and/or
>>             proposing this idea to other collectors.
>>
>>             Best,
>>
>>             Federico
>>
>>
>>
>>             On 09/21/2010 06:57 PM, Stefano Costa wrote:
>>
>>                 Il giorno mar, 21/09/2010 alle 10.09 +0100, Leif
>>                 Isaksen ha scritto:
>>
>>                     - As a separate issue, a few of us have been
>>                     toying with the idea of
>>                     setting up a Stack Exchange site for Technology
>>                     in the Humanities
>>                     (http://area51.stackexchange.com/). This would
>>                     have to be quite a
>>                     large affair in order to work (i.e. we'd need to
>>                     rope in antiquisters,
>>                     digital classicists, HASTACers, and so on in
>>                     order to reach a
>>                     functioning scale) but it's Q&A format would
>>                     nicely complement both
>>                     the mailing lists (which are good for
>>                     announcements and making
>>                     personal contacts) on the one hand and more
>>                     substantial knowledge
>>                     articles such as the proposed methods wiki on the
>>                     other. In any case,
>>                     if anyone is interested in the initial phase of
>>                     getting it off the
>>                     ground please get in touch offlist.
>>
>>                 I will reply in more detail later, but for the moment
>>                 being I'd like to
>>                 point out that a very similar web platform is already
>>                 available on OKFN
>>                 infrastructure, e.g. see http://ask.okfn.org/en/
>>
>>                 The major difference (and advantage, IMHO) would be
>>                 in self-hosting and
>>                 capability to license everything under CC-BY.
>>
>>                 I've started drafting the current proposal at
>>                 http://archeo.okfnpad.org/methodology-store - please
>>                 feel free to
>>                 contribute.
>>
>>                 Ciao,
>>                 steko
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>         On 22 September 2010 16:50, Federico Morando
>>         <federico.morando at gmail.com
>>         <http://federico.morando@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>             Dear All,
>>
>>             I would like to add a perspective about this interesting
>>             topic: as a by-product of this (admittedly quite
>>             ambitious) project, some simple methodologies (and
>>             possibly some related how-to) could be recommended to
>>             various hobbyist and amateurs (e.g. coin collectors)
>>             wanting to share information online.
>>
>>             In fact, this suggestion comes from the fact that I'm
>>             interested in these topics from two points of view: as a
>>             researcher working on public sector information (and
>>             content) related issues from a multidisciplinary point of
>>             view (law, technology & economics), taking into account
>>             the possibilities of interactions between information
>>             held by - say - public universities and user generated
>>             content; as a ancient coin collector (with a specific
>>             interest in relationships between amateurs and
>>             professionals and in legal schemes trying to minimize
>>             abuses and looting, maximizing the circulation of
>>             information: e.g. the portable antiquities scheme in UK
>>             and relates norms).
>>
>>             For instance, coin collectors frequently share online
>>             pictures and other infos about their collections, but
>>             they tend to do so ignoring (at least in part) best
>>             practices and/or standards which could help in making a
>>             scientific use of these pieces of information
>>             (nonetheless, I think that today websites such as
>>             http://wildwinds.com/ may help archaeologists without a
>>             strong numismatic background in identifying ancient
>>             coins). The kind of how-to which could help coin
>>             collectors making their information more usable for
>>             researchers includes, for instance, best practices to add
>>             semantic information to online collections of pictures of
>>             ancient coins (RDF related technologies, such as RDFa,
>>             ontologies and dictionaries, etc.).
>>
>>             Similarly, exposing some information about their
>>             findings, also archaeologist could sometimes benefit from
>>             interactions with amateurs: for instance, I have some
>>             friends working as archaeologist and they had to admit
>>             more than once that I know more than them (or their
>>             colleagues on a given excavation) about certain kinds of
>>             coins (e.g. late Roman bronzes or Celtic coins of
>>             northern Italy). That happens simply because I'm
>>             specialized on a very narrow subset of potentially
>>             archaeologically relevant knowledge, but this already
>>             allowed me to casually help one of them in identifying a
>>             worn coin simply looking at a picture, while my friend
>>             did not have many clues to start its identification (in
>>             fact, to me that flat bronze disk was clearly a
>>             Republican Roman as, but from the stratigraphic
>>             information one would have been pushed to think about
>>             medieval coins...).
>>             [There is interesting research going on in various fields
>>             about crowd-sourcing and I think that - up to a certain
>>             points - something could be done also in archaeology...
>>             it has been done for complex mathematical problems, but
>>             NASA also did that with a certain success for identifying
>>             craters on Mars, for instance...]
>>
>>             So, to make a long story short, I think it could be nice
>>             to think about methodologies (and software tools)
>>             creating a bridge between professional archaeologist and
>>             various kind of amateurs. More specifically, I would
>>             suggest to do some pilot work on ancient coins, simply
>>             because there are big communities of coin collectors
>>             online, because researchers in this field always used the
>>             work of collectors quite intensively (many well known
>>             ancient coins catalogues have been written by collectors
>>             in the past), but also because I would happily volunteer
>>             as collector participating in such a pilot and/or
>>             proposing this idea to other collectors.
>>
>>             Best,
>>
>>             Federico
>>
>>
>>
>>             On 09/21/2010 06:57 PM, Stefano Costa wrote:
>>
>>                 Il giorno mar, 21/09/2010 alle 10.09 +0100, Leif
>>                 Isaksen ha scritto:
>>
>>                     - As a separate issue, a few of us have been
>>                     toying with the idea of
>>                     setting up a Stack Exchange site for Technology
>>                     in the Humanities
>>                     (http://area51.stackexchange.com/). This would
>>                     have to be quite a
>>                     large affair in order to work (i.e. we'd need to
>>                     rope in antiquisters,
>>                     digital classicists, HASTACers, and so on in
>>                     order to reach a
>>                     functioning scale) but it's Q&A format would
>>                     nicely complement both
>>                     the mailing lists (which are good for
>>                     announcements and making
>>                     personal contacts) on the one hand and more
>>                     substantial knowledge
>>                     articles such as the proposed methods wiki on the
>>                     other. In any case,
>>                     if anyone is interested in the initial phase of
>>                     getting it off the
>>                     ground please get in touch offlist.
>>
>>                 I will reply in more detail later, but for the moment
>>                 being I'd like to
>>                 point out that a very similar web platform is already
>>                 available on OKFN
>>                 infrastructure, e.g. see http://ask.okfn.org/en/
>>
>>                 The major difference (and advantage, IMHO) would be
>>                 in self-hosting and
>>                 capability to license everything under CC-BY.
>>
>>                 I've started drafting the current proposal at
>>                 http://archeo.okfnpad.org/methodology-store - please
>>                 feel free to
>>                 contribute.
>>
>>                 Ciao,
>>                 steko
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>     -- 
>>     Scanned by iCritical.
>>
>>
>
>
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>
>

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