[Open-data-census] "Publicly available"

[James McKinney]

These issues are being tracked on GitHub and are being worked on:

https://github.com/okfn/opendatacensus/issues/116
https://github.com/okfn/opendatacensus/issues/191

James

On 2013-10-05, at 8:14 PM, Tracey P. Lauriault wrote:

> Thanks James¬
> 
> Christian, something to consider, I think having the name and contact of people who submitted to be really important.  The concept of data provenance or lineage comes to mind here.
> 
> Also the NOT APPLICABLE or NOT IN ALL CASES should be an option, many unsures are for not applicable and not in all cases and this is qualified in the notes.
> 
> Cheers
> t
> 
> 
> Cheers
> t
> 
> 
> On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 12:29 AM, James McKinney <james at opennorth.ca> wrote:
> Tracey, I'm not thinking about a specific dataset. I'm referring to the census FAQ: http://2013.census.okfn.org/faq/ which states:
> 
> > By publicly available is meant without having to put in FOI request - so it should be available without further ado.
> 
> The census designers would disagree with your interpretation of "publicly available". My question is addressed to the Census designers concerning a common confusion/disagreement around the meaning of "publicly available" (thank you for providing more evidence!).
> 
> Regarding Canada's entry in the census, I did not touch the transport question. I only reviewed Election Results and Postcodes. The app does not tell me whose submission I reviewed - so maybe they were yours, but they at least were not my own.
> 
> James
> 
> On 2013-10-05, at 6:48 PM, Tracey P. Lauriault wrote:
> 
> > if the data are only available via FOI then are they really accessible, if that have been made available as a result of foi then i would say they are publicly accessible.
> >
> > Which datasets are you thinking of?
> >
> > did you respond to the transport question?  It has become really weird!
> >
> > Is there a way to work together on this?  I had stuff filled out and now it is all changed, when do these get locked down Christian?
> >
> > Cheers
> > t
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Oct 5, 2013 at 10:51 PM, James McKinney <james at opennorth.ca> wrote:
> > "Publicly available" is defined as:
> >
> > > Is the data "public" - this does NOT require freely available but does require that *someone* outside of the government can access in some form (e.g. if the data is available for purchase it is public, if the timetables exist as PDFs on a website that you can access it it is public, if you can get it in paper form it is public).
> >
> > And later refined by:
> >
> > > By publicly available is meant without having to put in FOI request - so it should be available without further ado.
> >
> > By reading just the definition, I had figured that datasets that are accessible via FOI were to be considered publicly available. Can the definition be clarified so that contributors don't need to find that one sentence in the FAQ to get a correct understanding?
> >
> > What about the following case: Canada Post charges $50,000 per year for its postal code database. It's offered for purchase. Of course, since it's data, you need to sign a license agreement as part of the purchase. Now, is the "ado" involved in negotiating, signing and respecting a license agreement too much for it to be considered "publicly available"? From experience, the extra work caused by license agreements is often more than the work involved in filing an average FOI request.
> >
> > To me, the consequence of this is one of:
> >
> > 1. datasets that have been proven to be accessible via FOI should be considered publicly available; or
> > 2. datasets for purchase cannot be considered publicly available, as any such purchase involves a license agreement; or
> > 3. "publicly available" is a poor choice of words
> >
> > I'm personally leaning towards (3), additionally because a $50,000 dataset doesn't elicit the words "publicly available" in my mind.
> >
> > An alternative to "publicly available" might be "publicly offered". Datasets accessible only via FOI are not offered, in keeping with the current definition of "publicly available". I feel more comfortable saying that the Canada Post $50,000 dataset is "publicly offered", but I would feel disingenuous saying to a colleague that it's "publicly available".
> >
> > Furthermore, I've seen several submissions incorrectly interpret "publicly available" to imply "free", and indeed the screaming "NOT" in the current definition suggests that the authors of the census continue to face such misinterpretations. Although I recognize that "publicly available" is a beautiful and popular term, it seems that many people do not agree about what it means, so best to use a different term.
> >
> > What are the list's thoughts?
> >
> > James
> > _______________________________________________
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> > Open-data-census at lists.okfn.org
> > http://lists.okfn.org/mailman/listinfo/open-data-census
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Tracey P. Lauriault
> > http://traceyplauriault.wordpress.com/2013/07/23/moving-to-ireland/
> > https://gcrc.carleton.ca/confluence/display/GCRCWEB/Lauriault
> > http://datalibre.ca/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tracey P. Lauriault
> http://traceyplauriault.wordpress.com/2013/07/23/moving-to-ireland/
> https://gcrc.carleton.ca/confluence/display/GCRCWEB/Lauriault
> http://datalibre.ca/

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