[Open-education] Open Government Data: Helping Parents to find the Best School for their Kids
Terry Loane
terryloane at aol.com
Thu Jun 5 21:44:55 UTC 2014
This has been in interesting discussion, but I wonder if we have skirted
around what may be the most important issue relating to 'open data'
about educational institutions. We have discussed how accessible the
data might be but we have not really talked about how meaningful the
data might be.
Now the spreadsheet can be a really useful tool. But one of the
disadvantages of the invention of the spreadsheet is that it has filled
our lives with boxes into which we are expected to put ticks or numbers.
By doing so it supports a belief that human life can be understood in
terms of ticks and numbers. Yet this view is profoundly unscientific. It
is based on a mechanistic and reductionist scientific model that is at
least 69 years out of date (1945 having seen the publication of Ludwig
von Bertalanffy's 'Zu einer allgemeinen Systemlehre'). Since around that
time scientists have increasingly come to realise that living systems
are 'complex systems', in other words they are not linear and their
behaviour can be neither understood nor predicted by analysing their
component parts numerically. In educational terms 'living systems'
include the human brain, a complete human being and a community of
learners (aka Community of Practice). We just cannot pretend to
understand what is really going on in learning by analysing test
results, exam grades, league tables etc. Everyone in education will pay
lip service to the idea that education involves more than grades, but
the sad reality is that teachers, students and parents are so focused on
the numbers that they have neither the time nor the energy to consider
the bigger picture, the complex reality of real learning. The result is
that education gets dumbed down; it becomes a closed self-referential
simplistic system -- nothing really matters apart from the numbers and
the ticked boxes. Increasing the accessibility of this numerical data
simply serves to take everyone's focus away from the complex reality of
the big picture. That's the danger. That's why, in my view, 'open
educational data' can lead to closed minds. I agree with your
implication, Otavio, in asking the question: "What type of human being
we need in our society ? One that marked 100% in the test or one with
high emotional intelligence?" And I am afraid I can't really agree,
Marieke, that "more data and more eyes on that data can bring us a more
objective perspective". More data does not necessarily equal better
understanding.
Best wishes
Terry
On 04/06/2014 18:15, Otavio Ritter wrote:
> Pat, let me tell a simple story of open data impact different from
> traditional league tables. This is from Brazil where I live.
>
> School census here collects data about violence in school area (like
> drug traffic or other risks to pupils). Based on an open data platform
> developed to navigate through the census, it was possible to see that,
> in a specific Brazilian state, 35% of public schools had drug traffic
> near the schools. This fact created a pressure in the local government
> to create a public policy and a campaign to prevent drug use among
> students:
> https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.484468108297027.1073741826.273872446023262&type=3
>
> So in a nutshell, open data in education has a huge potential in my
> opinion, much more than facilitate choosing a school.
> In this example, I believe it helped save lifes.
>
> Regards
> Otavio
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 12:55 PM, Pat Lockley
> <patrick.lockley at googlemail.com
> <mailto:patrick.lockley at googlemail.com>> wrote:
>
> "The elitism comes in when the data says this school is better,
> and to come to this school you need to buy a 200,000 pound house.
> Tie that into knowing your school isn't very good and something
> like declaration theory (if you think you're going to fail, you're
> more likely to fail) then the openness is counter-intuitive. "
>
> I'm confused here. So the other option is not knowing that certain
> schools are better than your local school? Surely knowing about
> the situation can lead to change? Maybe your argument is about
> self-fulfilling prophecies? I have children in the UK school
> system and am well aware that there are no easy answers.
>
> --------------------
>
> We know schools are better though, we know Eton is better than
> almost everywhere. We've league tables today that tell us
> Cambridge is best (shock horror). If we feel the educational
> system should be comprehensive (apologies for England and Wales
> terms), which is logically an equitable, "open" system, then the
> data is more neutral? If schools are competing with each other, or
> having competition engineered for them, then the data isn't
> benign. If the data was for example - successful teaching
> approaches - then the sharing of that would offer a benefit to
> anyone who chooses to use it (a bit like OER).
>
> Lets consider Chepstow, small town, half inside Wales, half inside
> England. There are no league tables in Wales. Do the Welsh suffer
> due to this? Are their schools worse? Does a broader goal of
> social cohesion override a desire for individual access to data?
> The best schools in the UK are usually faith schools, and we have
> people faking a faith to get in, and I'm pretty sure the data on
> god existing is open. We also know a lot of social division and
> problems are caused by communities failing to integrate. Was it
> Brighton that has a lottery for school places to try and remove
> this problem?
>
> So it isn't not knowing, but more that when the data / knowledge
> is quantised and compartmentalised (unless, all data is open) and
> so, when treated in isolation doesn't look into wider issues which
> are explicitly related.
>
> Woods and trees I guess.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 3:58 PM, Marieke Guy <marieke.guy at okfn.org
> <mailto:marieke.guy at okfn.org>> wrote:
>
> Hi Pat,
>
> Hmmm....
>
> "The elitism comes in when the data says this school is
> better, and to come to this school you need to buy a 200,000
> pound house. Tie that into knowing your school isn't very good
> and something like declaration theory (if you think you're
> going to fail, you're more likely to fail) then the openness
> is counter-intuitive. "
>
> I'm confused here. So the other option is not knowing that
> certain schools are better than your local school? Surely
> knowing about the situation can lead to change? Maybe your
> argument is about self-fulfilling prophecies? I have children
> in the UK school system and am well aware that there are no
> easy answers.
>
> However open data can make for positive change. As Ottavio
> says "open education data helps a qualified debate by
> different actors that otherwise would not have access to this
> information restricted to school burocreacies"
>
> I think Ottavio's questions are very pertinent:
>
> Data - "But how they can be used to promote equity ? How they
> can be used to advance learning ? How they can be used to
> foster more collaboration within school clusters instead of
> more competition ? The data is there and how it can be used to
> defend these agendas?"
>
> These are what matter to those of us interested in open data.
> Exploration around these is where the potential lays.
>
> Thanks
>
> Marieke
>
>
> On 04/06/2014 15:38, Pat Lockley wrote:
>> Quoting
>>
>> "Enabling parents to make choices about schools seems to me
>> to be a good thing. We are not just talking about better
>> academic schools but more appropriate schools (ones that
>> support particular student needs with regard to academic
>> ability, special needs, religion, disability, possible
>> vocation etc.) I totally understand that league tables have
>> in the past caused hysteria, but much of this is to do with
>> media interpretation. Surely more data and more eyes on that
>> data can bring us a more objective perspective. Data is not
>> elitist, it is a tool. The elitism element comes in when
>> people cannot interpret that data or have access to it. This
>> means more tools to aid data interpretation, more training in
>> data skills and more open data. Opening up data is to me an
>> essential part of opening up education."
>>
>> The elitism comes in when the data says this school is
>> better, and to come to this school you need to buy a 200,000
>> pound house. Tie that into knowing your school isn't very
>> good and something like declaration theory (if you think
>> you're going to fail, you're more likely to fail) then the
>> openness is counter-intuitive.
>>
>> The reliance on many eyes, or many people, or civic action is
>> also based on people having the time to do it. If you have
>> the time to use the data, or can pay someone to do it for
>> you, then you can benefit from it.
>>
>> If the public policy was "all data open" then that's fine,
>> but it isn't applied holistically, or consistently. Schools
>> have league tables, but not say Army Battalions, Bus Drivers,
>> trade missions, bank binus data, etc (and the chance it isn't
>> without bias and that some of those biases aren't political
>> is really slim). Voting as change is convenient if you think
>> the lib dems stood for tripling tuition fees, it took an FOI
>> request to access the Rothschild report on loan book selling
>> (open?) and given the current system is costing more than the
>> old system - it is likely openness is not going to easily
>> happen with this data.
>>
>> Contrast with an OER, everyone can, crudely, access it should
>> they so with (with chronological implications above respected
>> too). That is, to me, a very different thing.
>>
>> I think what lacks from most openness is a sense almost of
>> something akin to jurisprudence in how openness is developed
>> as a concept. There is a quote from Blackstone about the law
>> - "those entering a system surrender some liberty in doing
>> so", and it seems innately openness isn't win win for
>> everyone. Question then is how you reduce the negative impact
>> of it.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 2:54 PM, Marieke Guy
>> <marieke.guy at okfn.org <mailto:marieke.guy at okfn.org>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Pat and Terry,
>>
>> Thanks for your contributions here. They've given me a
>> lot of food for thought and I will look in to some of the
>> points you make in more detail when I have time.
>>
>> For example Terry - your post on schools being locked
>> shut is a good resource for the Friday Chat question I
>> posted last week 'Is traditional education not open?' -
>> maybe I'll repost on Friday ;-)
>>
>> Anyway I just wanted to share my gut reaction to your
>> comments about this particular use of open data in
>> education.
>>
>> Terry says: "*Surely, surely open education should be
>> about far more than just using performance data to try to
>> get our kids into a better school than our less well
>> informed neighbours.*"
>>
>> And my answer to this would be: *Yes, yes it is, and
>> there is so much more we can do with it, but open data is
>> by it's very nature open and available for people to use
>> in anyway they see fit. This is one interesting approach
>> with huge amounts of potential.*
>>
>> The open definition states (and this is referenced in the
>> handbook).
>> "A piece of data or content is open if anyone is free to
>> use, reuse, and redistribute it --- subject only, at
>> most, to the requirement to attribute and/or share-alike."
>>
>> This then means it can be used for good, and for bad, and
>> for commercial exploitation.
>>
>> Enabling parents to make choices about schools seems to
>> me to be a good thing. We are not just talking about
>> better academic schools but more appropriate schools
>> (ones that support particular student needs with regard
>> to academic ability, special needs, religion, disability,
>> possible vocation etc.) I totally understand that league
>> tables have in the past caused hysteria, but much of this
>> is to do with media interpretation. Surely more data and
>> more eyes on that data can bring us a more objective
>> perspective. Data is not elitist, it is a tool. The
>> elitism element comes in when people cannot interpret
>> that data or have access to it. This means more tools to
>> aid data interpretation, more training in data skills and
>> more open data. Opening up data is to me an essential
>> part of opening up education.
>>
>> You might find it interesting to read about what other
>> countries such as Holland
>> <http://education.okfn.org/open-education-holland/> and
>> Tanzania
>> <http://education.okfn.org/open-education-tanzania/> are
>> doing in this area.
>>
>> In UK (where I am based) the ODI Data Challenge
>> <https://hackpad.com/Education-Open-Data-Challenge-kLW3ZeR98lj#>
>> mentioned by Ed has supported the development of some
>> really great apps built on open education data. The
>> expression 'the best thing to done with your data will be
>> thought of by someone else' certainly holds true here.
>>
>> So, to use one of my personal much overused phrases, "all
>> possibilities still exist"!
>>
>> The matter of marketisation of learning is something for
>> another day, but for me it's a shifting area, especially
>> when you think about countries outside the global south.
>>
>> Anyway thanks again for your comments. Always great to hear.
>>
>> Marieke
>>
>> On 04/06/2014 12:47, Pat Lockley wrote:
>>> hear hear
>>>
>>> And this is what I was going to say re Friday's chat. To
>>> me a lot of the open data / open access arguments around
>>> openness are a lot more neo-liberal / neo-con. So when
>>> we say traditional education, do we mean before league
>>> tables? Or before licensing? Or before openness?
>>>
>>> As an experiment, contrast our "Open" (if that thing
>>> exists) with Corporate Openness
>>> (say http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piercing_the_corporate_veil)
>>> and then perhaps tie this to citzens united and the
>>> openness of lobbying organisations.
>>>
>>> Paraphrasing this quote "The society which scorns
>>> excellence in plumbing as a humble activity and
>>> tolerates shoddiness in philosophy because it is an
>>> exalted activity will have neither good plumbing nor
>>> good philosophy: neither its pipes nor its theories will
>>> hold water."
>>>
>>> Because if we have a public openness and then allow a
>>> corporate "closed" then the benefit of the openness
>>> looks to me like it is lost, or worst, has the negative
>>> outcomes you'd expect to have once neo-liberal
>>> competition kicks in.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 10:27 AM, Terry Loane
>>> <terryloane at aol.com <mailto:terryloane at aol.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> For me there is a huge irony here.
>>>
>>> The very concept of open education is surely that
>>> people should be "free to use, reuse, and
>>> redistribute [resources]" (to quote from:
>>> http://booktype.okfn.org/open-education-handbook/_draft/_v/1.0/what-is-open/)
>>> Now this is the very opposite of a market approach
>>> to distributing goods and services. Marketisation of
>>> learning runs counter to open education because it
>>> is has to involve an assumption of privilege for
>>> those who access a particular resource/institution,
>>> which by definition will be scarce (e.g. an
>>> expensive textbook or an over-subscribed school.)
>>> The first paragraph of the quotation from Radu Cucos
>>> is a text-book, neo-liberal rationale for the market
>>> approach to schooling:
>>>
>>> "Each country has its own school market, if
>>> education is considered as a product in this market.
>>> Perfect information about products is one of the
>>> main characteristics of competitive markets. From
>>> this perspective, giving parents the opportunity to
>>> have access to information about schools
>>> characteristics will contribute to the increase in
>>> the competitiveness of the schools market.
>>> Educational institutions will have incentives to
>>> improve their performance in order to attract more
>>> students."
>>>
>>> Do we really believe that the idea of using 'open
>>> data' to ensure that our kids attend a better school
>>> than the ones next door who do not have access to
>>> such data is what open education should be about? Do
>>> we really believe the last sentence of the above
>>> quotation: "Educational institutions will have
>>> incentives to improve their performance in order to
>>> attract more students"? (The evidence in the UK is
>>> that publication and fetishizing of league tables
>>> can have a detrimental effect on learning because it
>>> focuses the attention of the institution on
>>> improving performance data rather than providing the
>>> best for each individual child.)
>>>
>>> I am also struck by the irony of using 'open data'
>>> to choose a school, because schools are such
>>> 'closed' institutions, in just about every sense of
>>> the word -- I have blogged bout this recently here:
>>> http://terryloane.typepad.com/reallylearn/2014/03/why-are-schools-locked-shut-most-of-the-time.html
>>>
>>> Surely, surely open education should be about far
>>> more than just using performance data to try to get
>>> our kids into a better school than our less well
>>> informed neighbours.
>>>
>>> Terry Loane
>>>
>>> On 03/06/2014 16:02, Marieke Guy wrote:
>>>> There is a great post on the Open Government
>>>> Partnership blog about using open government data
>>>> to help parents find the best school.
>>>> http://www.opengovpartnership.org/blog/radu-cucos/2014/06/03/open-government-data-helping-parents-find-best-school-their-kids
>>>>
>>>> The post, by Radu Cucos from Moldova, lists several
>>>> apps from different countries that have been built
>>>> on government data related to education and
>>>> education institutions. I'll be adding these to the
>>>> Open Education Handbook
>>>> <http://booktype.okfn.org/open-education-handbook/_draft/_v/1.0/open-data-use-cases/>.
>>>>
>>>> He concludes by saying:
>>>>
>>>> "Open data on schools has great value not only for
>>>> parents but also for the educational system in
>>>> general. Each country has its own school market, if
>>>> education is considered as a product in this
>>>> market. Perfect information about products is one
>>>> of the main characteristics of competitive markets.
>>>> From this perspective, giving parents the
>>>> opportunity to have access to information about
>>>> schools characteristics will contribute to the
>>>> increase in the competitiveness of the schools
>>>> market. Educational institutions will have
>>>> incentives to improve their performance in order to
>>>> attract more students.
>>>>
>>>> While adopting the Open Data Initiative policy in
>>>> the education field has advantages for everybody --
>>>> parents, schools and state authorities, it falls to
>>>> governments to take the leading role in promoting
>>>> Open Data. First of all, governments have to make
>>>> sure that data on schools is being publicly
>>>> released and regularly updated. Second, state
>>>> institutions have to incentivize developers to
>>>> create innovative apps. Third, governments have to
>>>> increase demand for educational apps by raising
>>>> awareness, lowering the costs for Open Data apps
>>>> accessibility and decreasing the costs of accessing
>>>> additional sources and information about schools."
>>>>
>>>> I'd be interested in hearing more about this from a
>>>> country perspective. Anyone got any interesting use
>>>> cases to share?
>>>>
>>>> We plan to have a community session on 'What has
>>>> open data got to do with education' during June -
>>>> details to follow.
>>>>
>>>> Marieke
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> Marieke Guy
>>>> LinkedUp <http://linkedup-project.eu/> Project
>>>> Community Coordinator | skype: mariekeguy | tel: 44
>>>> (0) 1285 885681 | @mariekeguy
>>>> <http://twitter.com/mariekeguy>
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>>>>
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>> LinkedUp <http://linkedup-project.eu/> Project Community
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