[Open-education] Open Government Data: Helping Parents to find the Best School for their Kids
Terry Loane
terryloane at aol.com
Tue Jun 10 21:24:31 UTC 2014
For me the really scary thing about this approach is that the more data
one makes available about schools, the more one encourages those who run
schools to focus their time, energy and resources on making the data
appear good rather than on developing the well-being and education of
their pupils/students. In other words the schools will indulge in
'gaming behaviour', modifying how they work so that their data appears
impressive. There is all the difference in the world between doing the
best for the data and doing the best for individual learners. If, for
example, a government publishes data on 'success rates in examinations'
(as you describe), then this gives each school a strong incentive (a) to
try to avoid enrolling children who are unlikely to perform well in
exams and (b) to devote minimal resources to developing the abilities of
any low achievers who are enrolled, and to concentrate the best teachers
and the best resources on those who do have the capability of improving
the success statistics. Here in England schools concentrate huge
resources on 'borderline' pupils who might, with sufficient push, just
manage to achieve the all-important Grade C in the GCSE maths and
English exams. A head teacher of a school in the English Midlands
recently told his staff that pupils who had no chance at all of reaching
GCSE grade C were 'expendable'. Such an attitude may be regarded as a
form of child abuse for all concerned, since it means that way the
children are treated is determined not by what is best for them but by
what is best for the school's data. And I could provide many more
examples from the UK of schools treating pupils in unacceptable ways
just to improve the school's performance data.
Some people have suggested that the way forward is to make the data more
comprehensive and more subtle - but all that then happens is that
schools devote even more time, energy and resources to 'data gaming'.
So I find it really hard to accept the notion that collecting more and
more data and making it more and more available will improve the life
chances of individual children. I do not wish to sound unkind, but dare
I suggest - with my tongue only slightly in my cheek:-) - that such an
attitude represents the hubris of the spreadsheet generation?
Best wishes
Terry Loane
Using Technology to Gather, Store and Report Evidence of Learning
<http://shop.niace.org.uk/using-technology-to-gather-store-and-report-evidence-of-learning.html>
On 08/06/2014 15:16, T. Idriss TINTO wrote:
> Hi,
> In Burkina Faso, we just opened our open data portal (data.gov.bf).
> The open data team of the government have worked with civil society
> and some start-up to realise a pilot project that consist on
> visualizing on a map the primary schools of a municipality. In
> addition, some important indicators for us in Burkina were presente.
> those indicators can help parents choose the best school for their
> children, investors to choose the better place to build à school, or
> the government itself to measure the impact of its actions. Our web
> app help to answer to questions like:
> - Does the school have a canteen?
> - Does the school have a latrine?
> - Does the school have a water point?
> - Does the school have an association of parents?
> But also, we have information on success rates in examinations, the
> number of classes, the number of teachers, the number of girls and
> boys, the geo-localisation of the school, and we also displayed a
> picture of the school.
>
> At the Open Data forum that was held from June 5 to 6, not only the
> ministry of education, but also all the participants wanted the
> project to be extended to the whole country.
> The App will be online soon.
> Regards
>
> Le 04/06/2014 17:15, Otavio Ritter a écrit :
>> Pat, let me tell a simple story of open data impact different from
>> traditional league tables. This is from Brazil where I live.
>>
>> School census here collects data about violence in school area (like
>> drug traffic or other risks to pupils). Based on an open data
>> platform developed to navigate through the census, it was possible to
>> see that, in a specific Brazilian state, 35% of public schools had
>> drug traffic near the schools. This fact created a pressure in the
>> local government to create a public policy and a campaign to prevent
>> drug use among students:
>> https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.484468108297027.1073741826.273872446023262&type=3
>>
>> So in a nutshell, open data in education has a huge potential in my
>> opinion, much more than facilitate choosing a school.
>> In this example, I believe it helped save lifes.
>>
>> Regards
>> Otavio
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 12:55 PM, Pat Lockley
>> <patrick.lockley at googlemail.com
>> <mailto:patrick.lockley at googlemail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> "The elitism comes in when the data says this school is better,
>> and to come to this school you need to buy a 200,000 pound house.
>> Tie that into knowing your school isn't very good and something
>> like declaration theory (if you think you're going to fail,
>> you're more likely to fail) then the openness is counter-intuitive. "
>>
>> I'm confused here. So the other option is not knowing that
>> certain schools are better than your local school? Surely knowing
>> about the situation can lead to change? Maybe your argument is
>> about self-fulfilling prophecies? I have children in the UK
>> school system and am well aware that there are no easy answers.
>>
>> --------------------
>>
>> We know schools are better though, we know Eton is better than
>> almost everywhere. We've league tables today that tell us
>> Cambridge is best (shock horror). If we feel the educational
>> system should be comprehensive (apologies for England and Wales
>> terms), which is logically an equitable, "open" system, then the
>> data is more neutral? If schools are competing with each other,
>> or having competition engineered for them, then the data isn't
>> benign. If the data was for example - successful teaching
>> approaches - then the sharing of that would offer a benefit to
>> anyone who chooses to use it (a bit like OER).
>>
>> Lets consider Chepstow, small town, half inside Wales, half
>> inside England. There are no league tables in Wales. Do the Welsh
>> suffer due to this? Are their schools worse? Does a broader goal
>> of social cohesion override a desire for individual access to
>> data? The best schools in the UK are usually faith schools, and
>> we have people faking a faith to get in, and I'm pretty sure the
>> data on god existing is open. We also know a lot of social
>> division and problems are caused by communities failing to
>> integrate. Was it Brighton that has a lottery for school places
>> to try and remove this problem?
>>
>> So it isn't not knowing, but more that when the data / knowledge
>> is quantised and compartmentalised (unless, all data is open) and
>> so, when treated in isolation doesn't look into wider issues
>> which are explicitly related.
>>
>> Woods and trees I guess.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 3:58 PM, Marieke Guy <marieke.guy at okfn.org
>> <mailto:marieke.guy at okfn.org>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Pat,
>>
>> Hmmm....
>>
>> "The elitism comes in when the data says this school is
>> better, and to come to this school you need to buy a 200,000
>> pound house. Tie that into knowing your school isn't very
>> good and something like declaration theory (if you think
>> you're going to fail, you're more likely to fail) then the
>> openness is counter-intuitive. "
>>
>> I'm confused here. So the other option is not knowing that
>> certain schools are better than your local school? Surely
>> knowing about the situation can lead to change? Maybe your
>> argument is about self-fulfilling prophecies? I have children
>> in the UK school system and am well aware that there are no
>> easy answers.
>>
>> However open data can make for positive change. As Ottavio
>> says "open education data helps a qualified debate by
>> different actors that otherwise would not have access to this
>> information restricted to school burocreacies"
>>
>> I think Ottavio's questions are very pertinent:
>>
>> Data - "But how they can be used to promote equity ? How they
>> can be used to advance learning ? How they can be used to
>> foster more collaboration within school clusters instead of
>> more competition ? The data is there and how it can be used
>> to defend these agendas?"
>>
>> These are what matter to those of us interested in open data.
>> Exploration around these is where the potential lays.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Marieke
>>
>>
>> On 04/06/2014 15:38, Pat Lockley wrote:
>>> Quoting
>>>
>>> "Enabling parents to make choices about schools seems to me
>>> to be a good thing. We are not just talking about better
>>> academic schools but more appropriate schools (ones that
>>> support particular student needs with regard to academic
>>> ability, special needs, religion, disability, possible
>>> vocation etc.) I totally understand that league tables have
>>> in the past caused hysteria, but much of this is to do with
>>> media interpretation. Surely more data and more eyes on that
>>> data can bring us a more objective perspective. Data is not
>>> elitist, it is a tool. The elitism element comes in when
>>> people cannot interpret that data or have access to it. This
>>> means more tools to aid data interpretation, more training
>>> in data skills and more open data. Opening up data is to me
>>> an essential part of opening up education."
>>>
>>> The elitism comes in when the data says this school is
>>> better, and to come to this school you need to buy a 200,000
>>> pound house. Tie that into knowing your school isn't very
>>> good and something like declaration theory (if you think
>>> you're going to fail, you're more likely to fail) then the
>>> openness is counter-intuitive.
>>>
>>> The reliance on many eyes, or many people, or civic action
>>> is also based on people having the time to do it. If you
>>> have the time to use the data, or can pay someone to do it
>>> for you, then you can benefit from it.
>>>
>>> If the public policy was "all data open" then that's fine,
>>> but it isn't applied holistically, or consistently. Schools
>>> have league tables, but not say Army Battalions, Bus
>>> Drivers, trade missions, bank binus data, etc (and the
>>> chance it isn't without bias and that some of those biases
>>> aren't political is really slim). Voting as change is
>>> convenient if you think the lib dems stood for tripling
>>> tuition fees, it took an FOI request to access the
>>> Rothschild report on loan book selling (open?) and given the
>>> current system is costing more than the old system - it is
>>> likely openness is not going to easily happen with this data.
>>>
>>> Contrast with an OER, everyone can, crudely, access it
>>> should they so with (with chronological implications above
>>> respected too). That is, to me, a very different thing.
>>>
>>> I think what lacks from most openness is a sense almost of
>>> something akin to jurisprudence in how openness is developed
>>> as a concept. There is a quote from Blackstone about the law
>>> - "those entering a system surrender some liberty in doing
>>> so", and it seems innately openness isn't win win for
>>> everyone. Question then is how you reduce the negative
>>> impact of it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 2:54 PM, Marieke Guy
>>> <marieke.guy at okfn.org <mailto:marieke.guy at okfn.org>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Pat and Terry,
>>>
>>> Thanks for your contributions here. They've given me a
>>> lot of food for thought and I will look in to some of
>>> the points you make in more detail when I have time.
>>>
>>> For example Terry - your post on schools being locked
>>> shut is a good resource for the Friday Chat question I
>>> posted last week 'Is traditional education not open?' -
>>> maybe I'll repost on Friday ;-)
>>>
>>> Anyway I just wanted to share my gut reaction to your
>>> comments about this particular use of open data in
>>> education.
>>>
>>> Terry says: "*Surely, surely open education should be
>>> about far more than just using performance data to try
>>> to get our kids into a better school than our less well
>>> informed neighbours.*"
>>>
>>> And my answer to this would be: *Yes, yes it is, and
>>> there is so much more we can do with it, but open data
>>> is by it's very nature open and available for people to
>>> use in anyway they see fit. This is one interesting
>>> approach with huge amounts of potential.*
>>>
>>> The open definition states (and this is referenced in
>>> the handbook).
>>> "A piece of data or content is open if anyone is free to
>>> use, reuse, and redistribute it --- subject only, at
>>> most, to the requirement to attribute and/or share-alike."
>>>
>>> This then means it can be used for good, and for bad,
>>> and for commercial exploitation.
>>>
>>> Enabling parents to make choices about schools seems to
>>> me to be a good thing. We are not just talking about
>>> better academic schools but more appropriate schools
>>> (ones that support particular student needs with regard
>>> to academic ability, special needs, religion,
>>> disability, possible vocation etc.) I totally understand
>>> that league tables have in the past caused hysteria, but
>>> much of this is to do with media interpretation. Surely
>>> more data and more eyes on that data can bring us a more
>>> objective perspective. Data is not elitist, it is a
>>> tool. The elitism element comes in when people cannot
>>> interpret that data or have access to it. This means
>>> more tools to aid data interpretation, more training in
>>> data skills and more open data. Opening up data is to me
>>> an essential part of opening up education.
>>>
>>> You might find it interesting to read about what other
>>> countries such as Holland
>>> <http://education.okfn.org/open-education-holland/> and
>>> Tanzania
>>> <http://education.okfn.org/open-education-tanzania/> are
>>> doing in this area.
>>>
>>> In UK (where I am based) the ODI Data Challenge
>>> <https://hackpad.com/Education-Open-Data-Challenge-kLW3ZeR98lj#>
>>> mentioned by Ed has supported the development of some
>>> really great apps built on open education data. The
>>> expression 'the best thing to done with your data will
>>> be thought of by someone else' certainly holds true here.
>>>
>>> So, to use one of my personal much overused phrases,
>>> "all possibilities still exist"!
>>>
>>> The matter of marketisation of learning is something for
>>> another day, but for me it's a shifting area, especially
>>> when you think about countries outside the global south.
>>>
>>> Anyway thanks again for your comments. Always great to hear.
>>>
>>> Marieke
>>>
>>> On 04/06/2014 12:47, Pat Lockley wrote:
>>>> hear hear
>>>>
>>>> And this is what I was going to say re Friday's chat.
>>>> To me a lot of the open data / open access arguments
>>>> around openness are a lot more neo-liberal / neo-con.
>>>> So when we say traditional education, do we mean before
>>>> league tables? Or before licensing? Or before openness?
>>>>
>>>> As an experiment, contrast our "Open" (if that thing
>>>> exists) with Corporate Openness
>>>> (say http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piercing_the_corporate_veil)
>>>> and then perhaps tie this to citzens united and the
>>>> openness of lobbying organisations.
>>>>
>>>> Paraphrasing this quote "The society which scorns
>>>> excellence in plumbing as a humble activity and
>>>> tolerates shoddiness in philosophy because it is an
>>>> exalted activity will have neither good plumbing nor
>>>> good philosophy: neither its pipes nor its theories
>>>> will hold water."
>>>>
>>>> Because if we have a public openness and then allow a
>>>> corporate "closed" then the benefit of the openness
>>>> looks to me like it is lost, or worst, has the negative
>>>> outcomes you'd expect to have once neo-liberal
>>>> competition kicks in.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 10:27 AM, Terry Loane
>>>> <terryloane at aol.com <mailto:terryloane at aol.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> For me there is a huge irony here.
>>>>
>>>> The very concept of open education is surely that
>>>> people should be "free to use, reuse, and
>>>> redistribute [resources]" (to quote from:
>>>> http://booktype.okfn.org/open-education-handbook/_draft/_v/1.0/what-is-open/)
>>>> Now this is the very opposite of a market approach
>>>> to distributing goods and services. Marketisation
>>>> of learning runs counter to open education because
>>>> it is has to involve an assumption of privilege for
>>>> those who access a particular resource/institution,
>>>> which by definition will be scarce (e.g. an
>>>> expensive textbook or an over-subscribed school.)
>>>> The first paragraph of the quotation from Radu
>>>> Cucos is a text-book, neo-liberal rationale for the
>>>> market approach to schooling:
>>>>
>>>> "Each country has its own school market, if
>>>> education is considered as a product in this
>>>> market. Perfect information about products is one
>>>> of the main characteristics of competitive markets.
>>>> From this perspective, giving parents the
>>>> opportunity to have access to information about
>>>> schools characteristics will contribute to the
>>>> increase in the competitiveness of the schools
>>>> market. Educational institutions will have
>>>> incentives to improve their performance in order to
>>>> attract more students."
>>>>
>>>> Do we really believe that the idea of using 'open
>>>> data' to ensure that our kids attend a better
>>>> school than the ones next door who do not have
>>>> access to such data is what open education should
>>>> be about? Do we really believe the last sentence of
>>>> the above quotation: "Educational institutions will
>>>> have incentives to improve their performance in
>>>> order to attract more students"? (The evidence in
>>>> the UK is that publication and fetishizing of
>>>> league tables can have a detrimental effect on
>>>> learning because it focuses the attention of the
>>>> institution on improving performance data rather
>>>> than providing the best for each individual child.)
>>>>
>>>> I am also struck by the irony of using 'open data'
>>>> to choose a school, because schools are such
>>>> 'closed' institutions, in just about every sense of
>>>> the word -- I have blogged bout this recently here:
>>>> http://terryloane.typepad.com/reallylearn/2014/03/why-are-schools-locked-shut-most-of-the-time.html
>>>>
>>>> Surely, surely open education should be about far
>>>> more than just using performance data to try to get
>>>> our kids into a better school than our less well
>>>> informed neighbours.
>>>>
>>>> Terry Loane
>>>>
>>>> On 03/06/2014 16:02, Marieke Guy wrote:
>>>>> There is a great post on the Open Government
>>>>> Partnership blog about using open government data
>>>>> to help parents find the best school.
>>>>> http://www.opengovpartnership.org/blog/radu-cucos/2014/06/03/open-government-data-helping-parents-find-best-school-their-kids
>>>>>
>>>>> The post, by Radu Cucos from Moldova, lists
>>>>> several apps from different countries that have
>>>>> been built on government data related to education
>>>>> and education institutions. I'll be adding these
>>>>> to the Open Education Handbook
>>>>> <http://booktype.okfn.org/open-education-handbook/_draft/_v/1.0/open-data-use-cases/>.
>>>>>
>>>>> He concludes by saying:
>>>>>
>>>>> "Open data on schools has great value not only for
>>>>> parents but also for the educational system in
>>>>> general. Each country has its own school market,
>>>>> if education is considered as a product in this
>>>>> market. Perfect information about products is one
>>>>> of the main characteristics of competitive
>>>>> markets. From this perspective, giving parents the
>>>>> opportunity to have access to information about
>>>>> schools characteristics will contribute to the
>>>>> increase in the competitiveness of the schools
>>>>> market. Educational institutions will have
>>>>> incentives to improve their performance in order
>>>>> to attract more students.
>>>>>
>>>>> While adopting the Open Data Initiative policy in
>>>>> the education field has advantages for everybody
>>>>> -- parents, schools and state authorities, it
>>>>> falls to governments to take the leading role in
>>>>> promoting Open Data. First of all, governments
>>>>> have to make sure that data on schools is being
>>>>> publicly released and regularly updated. Second,
>>>>> state institutions have to incentivize developers
>>>>> to create innovative apps. Third, governments have
>>>>> to increase demand for educational apps by raising
>>>>> awareness, lowering the costs for Open Data apps
>>>>> accessibility and decreasing the costs of
>>>>> accessing additional sources and information about
>>>>> schools."
>>>>>
>>>>> I'd be interested in hearing more about this from
>>>>> a country perspective. Anyone got any interesting
>>>>> use cases to share?
>>>>>
>>>>> We plan to have a community session on 'What has
>>>>> open data got to do with education' during June -
>>>>> details to follow.
>>>>>
>>>>> Marieke
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>> Marieke Guy
>>>>> LinkedUp <http://linkedup-project.eu/> Project
>>>>> Community Coordinator | skype: mariekeguy | tel:
>>>>> 44 (0) 1285 885681 | @mariekeguy
>>>>> <http://twitter.com/mariekeguy>
>>>>> The Open Knowledge <http://okfn.org/>
>>>>> /Empowering through Open Knowledge/
>>>>> http://okfn.org/ | @okfn
>>>>> <http://twitter.com/okfn>| OKF on Facebook | Blog
>>>>> | Newsletter
>>>>> http://remoteworker.wordpress.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> open-education mailing list
>>>>> open-education at lists.okfn.org <mailto:open-education at lists.okfn.org>
>>>>> https://lists.okfn.org/mailman/listinfo/open-education
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> open-education mailing list
>>>> open-education at lists.okfn.org
>>>> <mailto:open-education at lists.okfn.org>
>>>> https://lists.okfn.org/mailman/listinfo/open-education
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> open-education mailing list
>>>> open-education at lists.okfn.org <mailto:open-education at lists.okfn.org>
>>>> https://lists.okfn.org/mailman/listinfo/open-education
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Marieke Guy
>>> LinkedUp <http://linkedup-project.eu/> Project Community
>>> Coordinator | skype: mariekeguy | tel: 44 (0) 1285
>>> 885681 | @mariekeguy <http://twitter.com/mariekeguy>
>>> Open Knowledge <http://okfn.org/>
>>> /Empowering through Open Knowledge/
>>> http://okfn.org/ | @okfn <http://twitter.com/okfn>| OKF
>>> on Facebook | Blog | Newsletter
>>> http://remoteworker.wordpress.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> open-education mailing list
>>> open-education at lists.okfn.org
>>> <mailto:open-education at lists.okfn.org>
>>> https://lists.okfn.org/mailman/listinfo/open-education
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> open-education mailing list
>>> open-education at lists.okfn.org <mailto:open-education at lists.okfn.org>
>>> https://lists.okfn.org/mailman/listinfo/open-education
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Marieke Guy
>> LinkedUp <http://linkedup-project.eu/> Project Community
>> Coordinator | skype: mariekeguy | tel: 44 (0) 1285 885681 |
>> @mariekeguy <http://twitter.com/mariekeguy>
>> Open Knowledge <http://okfn.org/>
>> /Empowering through Open Knowledge/
>> http://okfn.org/ | @okfn <http://twitter.com/okfn>| OKF on
>> Facebook | Blog | Newsletter
>> http://remoteworker.wordpress.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> open-education mailing list
>> open-education at lists.okfn.org
>> <mailto:open-education at lists.okfn.org>
>> https://lists.okfn.org/mailman/listinfo/open-education
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> open-education mailing list
>> open-education at lists.okfn.org <mailto:open-education at lists.okfn.org>
>> https://lists.okfn.org/mailman/listinfo/open-education
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> open-education mailing list
>> open-education at lists.okfn.org
>> https://lists.okfn.org/mailman/listinfo/open-education
>
> --
> Teg-Wendé Idriss TINTO:
> Ingenieur en Informatique
> téléphones:
> (00226)70102936,
> (00226)66283666
> email:
> tinto.jean[at]titinto[dot]net,
> tinto.jean[at]computer[dot]org
> twitter:
> @titinto_
> skype:
> tinto.jean
> citation:
> « Notre mission est de préserver, protéger et promouvoir la liberté d'utiliser, étudier, copier, modifier et redistribuer les programmes informatiques, et de défendre les droits des utilisateurs de logiciel libre. » FSF
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> open-education mailing list
> open-education at lists.okfn.org
> https://lists.okfn.org/mailman/listinfo/open-education
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.okfn.org/pipermail/open-education/attachments/20140610/49f1efc8/attachment-0003.html>
More information about the open-education
mailing list