[open-government] UK Government transparency update (and democracy?)
David Eaves
david at eaves.ca
Fri Dec 10 01:22:48 UTC 2010
Hi Paola, I'm also not certain that the lack of the term democracy
coming up is reflective of either a disinterest in democracy or even as
you allude, indifference or hostility.
I actually think most people in the open government movement see open
data and open government as reinforcing democracy... indeed, for many I
think democracy is a presumed precondition for greater transparency.
Moreover, the fact that TBL and others talk so much about the need for
data journalists is a recognition that the data being liberated in of
itself is not enough, we need a way to ensure that it gets into the
regular discourse and empowers citizens of all stripes.
I'd love to see the clips/references you refer to as I really didn't get
the same vibe out of OGDcamp at all - quite the opposite, really felt
like most of the people in the room see themselves as advocates of
democratic values.
cheers,
dave eaves
On 10-12-09 12:17 PM, Luigi Selmi wrote:
> Hi Paola,
> I was at the OGDCamp in London but don't think to be the one that gave
> you a card since I do not have cards. It is true that the term
> 'democracy' doesn't come up very often when talking about
> transparency. Maybe it is because there are a lot of people that comes
> from governments and institutions that are more interested in the
> functioning of the current practices and do not pay attention to what
> happen outside, to all the events that send us signs of a crisis of
> the representative democracy. I live in Italy and we have been
> experimenting for more than 16 years all the issues about that. The
> last of these days is the of deputies' votes shopping to support the
> current government. We are at the far edge of the representative
> democracy crisis but also in the US and other western countries there
> are a lot of issues that come up every time and cannot be solved
> within the current model of democracy. We need transparency because we
> need the knowledge to intervene every day not just to chose someone to
> go in the parliament.
>
> Best Regards
>
>
> Luigi Selmi
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2010 17:51:17 +0000
> Subject: Re: [open-government] UK Government transparency update (and
> democracy?)
> From: paola.dimaio at gmail.com
> To: selmi_luigi at hotmail.com
> CC: open-government at lists.okfn.org
>
> Luigi
>
> I obviously agree with you, and became terrified when I found out that
> democracy, according to some working in the OGDCamp, is just an optional
>
> (will send you a copy of the relevant snippets of email exchanges
> separately, if you are interested)
>
> What some of us defend and uphold by default - democratic principles
> and civil liberties as the foundation for good governance, including
> self-governance - does not always seem to be reflected in the
> philosophy of current open government initiatives - quite the
> contrary, to my worry.
>
> Democracy should never be taken for granted, but unfortunately self
> organisation is sometimes used as an excuse to justify the chaos where
> great inequalities, deliberate omissions and lack of
> democratic processes become hidden and take place without anyone
> noticing.
>
> Until we no longer can tell who is running the show, using what rules
> of the game.
>
> Perhaps at the next Camp we should propose this topic for discussion,
> and find a way to demand that the agenda is managed transparently and
> fairly.
>
> I will analyse the ODGCamp corpus when its published to see if we find
> any instances of the word democracy that I may have missed on the day
>
> PDM
>
> (are you the Luigi who gave me his card? i am still going thru my
> notes, will catch up soon)
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 4:29 PM, Luigi Selmi <selmi_luigi at hotmail.com
> <mailto:selmi_luigi at hotmail.com>> wrote:
>
> If 'transparency of information' is not related to democracy I
> wonder why bother about it ? Open data and open government are
> steps towards a new kind of democracy, more partecipatory,
> something that goes beyond the representative democracy without
> falling into populism and plebiscitaniarism.
>
>
> Luigi
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2010 16:09:17 +0000
> From: paola.dimaio at gmail.com <mailto:paola.dimaio at gmail.com>
> To: javier at openrightsgroup.org <mailto:javier at openrightsgroup.org>
> CC: open-government at lists.okfn.org
> <mailto:open-government at lists.okfn.org>
> Subject: [open-government] UK Government transparency update (and
> democracy?)
>
>
> Javier
>
> thanks for the update
>
> one the words that I have not seen come up much at the OGCAMP
> is 'democracy', in fact some people cringed when I dared mention it
>
> Some 'activists' seem to take the view that 'democratic process'
> is not that much related
> to 'trasparency of information'
>
> Let us know when you hear of something in that respect
>
> cheers
>
> PDM
>
>
>
> 2010/12/7 Javier Ruiz Diaz <javier at openrightsgroup.org
> <mailto:javier at openrightsgroup.org>>
>
> Dear all
>
> It seems they were listening during the OGD camp.
>
> http://www.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/about-cabinet-office/plans-performance/transparency-privacy-data.aspx
>
> Tentatively good news, lets see the details in the next few days.
>
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