[open-government] New post Open Data, Technology and Government 2.0 – What Should We, And Should We Not, Expect

Sat Sep 15 02:30:49 UTC 2012

On 09/13/2012 12:15 PM, Tom Lee wrote:
> US CTO Todd Park regularly cites $90bn as the economic benefit yielded 
> by civilian GPS (which I'd argue is a fairly strained and/or unusual 
> open data exemplar)

Yeah. Todd Park adds an interesting twist to the open data movement, 
since his focus is on tech innovation in general (and health in 
particular --- for those not familiar, he was previously CTO of the US 
Department of Health and Human Services).

> it's not uncommon to see breathless accounts of how platforms like 
> Liquid Feedback or the technology used by Americans Elect will 
> revolutionize civic participation, democratic deliberation, and usher 
> in a post-partisan, technocratic order.

Ah right. Totally. I forgot that those sorts of projects do do a lot of 
that. (I wonder if at my last startup we did that. I guess when you're 
in the middle of it it's hard to see if you're overselling...)

Thanks for your responses, Tom and Rufus.

- Josh Tauberer (@JoshData)

http://razor.occams.info

On 09/13/2012 12:15 PM, Tom Lee wrote:
> To some extent, this may be a byproduct of our/my overexposure to the 
> space and the more fabulous claims made within it. Most of these 
> claims are within the realm of economic development and improved 
> government efficiency -- I've personally witnessed people promise that 
> open data would yield financial returns greater than the cost of the 
> most recent Iraq War, for instance (this individual had no background 
> that would enable him to make such a claim). US CTO Todd Park 
> regularly cites $90bn as the economic benefit yielded by civilian GPS 
> (which I'd argue is a fairly strained and/or unusual open data 
> exemplar), with the obvious implication that future releases will 
> generate similar returns. And in the US, at least, it's not uncommon 
> to see breathless accounts of how platforms like Liquid Feedback or 
> the technology used by Americans Elect will revolutionize civic 
> participation, democratic deliberation, and usher in a post-partisan, 
> technocratic order.
>
> I *really* don't want to be a needlessly wet blanket.  Although the 
> numbers are often hyperbolic, I suspect that everyone on this list 
> believes the benefits of these datasets and methods of experimentation 
> to be real and worthwhile -- and not yet fully achieved. But we need 
> allies, and I've watched time and again as valuable and sympathetic 
> figures -- most recently, in that CT roundtable, Beth Noveck and Clay 
> Shirky -- became alienated by the seemingly unrealized promises that 
> this movement has made.
>
> It is entirely possible that I'm overly sensitive to this danger, 
> though. Most people couldn't tell you what open data is even if 
> pressed to do so at gunpoint. Presenting an optimistic case as people 
> are introduced to the topic strikes me as totally justifiable -- it's 
> just the shifting of elite opinion among policymakers that motivates 
> my worry.
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 10:44 AM, Josh Tauberer <tauberer at govtrack.us 
> <mailto:tauberer at govtrack.us>> wrote:
>
>>     There’s a*danger if open data is seen as a panacea that will
>>     magically solve climate change or eliminate corruption because it
>>     will inevitably fail to do so and hope and enthusiasm will be
>>     replaced by disappointment and dis-engagement*.
>
>     I agree entirely with the conclusion. But...
>
>     There has been a lot of writing on this lately (the Crooked Timber
>     series w/ the Tom [S]lee's etc. [1], John Wonderlich's response
>     [2]). All of this so far, including your post, has worked through
>     tough issues and I've learned a lot from it all. But where is open
>     data actually seen as a panacea? Where is this problem coming from?
>
>     Open data advocates almost never make big promises. We know that
>     data != change. Who is raising expectations too high?
>
>     [1] http://crookedtimber.org/2012/07/17/open-data-seminar-2/
>     [2]
>     http://sunlightfoundation.com/blog/2012/07/06/open-data-creates-accountability/
>
>     - Josh Tauberer (@JoshData)
>
>     http://www.govtrack.us  |http://razor.occams.info
>
>     On 09/13/2012 09:25 AM, Rufus Pollock wrote:
>>     Hi All,
>>
>>     I've just put up post on Open Knowledge Foundation blog entitled
>>     "Managing Expectations: Open Data, Technology and Government 2.0 –
>>     What Should We, And Should We Not Expect":
>>
>>     <http://blog.okfn.org/2012/09/13/managing-expectations-ii-open-data-technology-and-government-2-0/>  <http://blog.okfn.org/2012/09/13/managing-expectations-ii-open-data-technology-and-government-2-0/>
>>
>>     <https://twitter.com/OKFN/status/246219882436378625>  <https://twitter.com/OKFN/status/246219882436378625>
>>
>>     This distils some accumulated thinking (over the last couple of
>>     years!) and I'd very much welcome any thoughts or feedback people
>>     have.
>>
>>     Regards,
>>
>>     Rufus
>>
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>
>
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