[open-government] Deciphering licensing in Project Open Data

Thu May 23 17:17:03 UTC 2013

Rufus and Josh,

Note that I am not a copyright attorney, but I believe the WIPO treaty
would apply. The WIPO treaty extends copyright to databases. However, I am
not sure how local law applies. So the question is does the WIPO treaty
apply the treatment of the material locally to other jurisdictions.  In
other words, if US law says the material is in the public domain, then is
it in the public domain in every other jurisdiction based on the WIPO
Treaty. That would make sense, I just don't know the answer.

Thanks,
Brian

Brian Peltola Gryth
715 Logan Street
Denver, CO 80203
303-748-5447
twitter.com/briangryth

On Thu, May 23, 2013 at 9:06 AM, Josh Tauberer <tauberer at govtrack.us> wrote:

>  On 05/23/2013 10:45 AM, Rufus Pollock wrote:
> > One major question, that perhaps you could clarify on, is the status of
> Federal data *outside* the US.
>
> Hey, Rufus.
>
> I think you're right that federal government data born into the public
> domain here would not necessarily be public domain in other countries.
>
> But I doubt that question occurred to the White House, and frankly it's
> really not on the radar among open data advocates here either. In fact,
> we're leaning slightly in a different direction. Eric Mill has suggested
> that CC0 *not* be applied to U.S. public domain data because it may
> misleadingly imply that the data needed a PD dedication in the first place.
> But, again, the copyright status in other countries hasn't ever been a
> consideration. If we added that consideration Eric might propose something
> a little different.
>
>
>  I also wonder if it is hoped the guidance will inform non-Federal
> government entities at the state and local level?
>
>
> Modulo licensing, I hope it does. Most of the rest of the memorandum is
> very good. But the public domain exception for federal data doesn't apply
> to the states so it gets more complicated (and, from my point of view, more
> dangerous).
>
>
> - Josh Tauberer (@JoshData)
> http://razor.occams.info
>
> On 05/23/2013 10:45 AM, Rufus Pollock wrote:
>
> Hi Josh,
>
>  One major question, that perhaps you could clarify on, is the status of
> Federal data *outside* the US. While I understand the idea that is public
> domain in the US does this also mean it is public domain everywhere else
> (or can a US Federal entity asserts rights in data outside the US)?
>
>  If the latter this would still require a clear "public domain dedication
> or license". I also wonder if it is hoped the guidance will inform
> non-Federal government entities at the state and local level?
>
>  Regards,
>
>  Rufus
>
>
> On 23 May 2013 04:02, Josh Tauberer <tauberer at govtrack.us> wrote:
>
>>  To add on to this and clarify what Timothy wrote about in that post,
>> the memorandum is almost entirely incoherent on the subject of licensing,
>> and in three ways.
>>
>> First, it says that agencies should use open licenses for all data,
>> period. Data produced by the federal government is typically not subject to
>> copyright protection. You can't license something you don't own. If
>> agencies began attempting to create "open licenses" for public domain data,
>> we are going to be in a lot of trouble. (Data produced by government
>> contractors is subject to copyright protection, which is a major loophole
>> in our copyright law.)
>>
>> Second, every place where it mentions "open license" it says something
>> like "an open license that places no restriction on use." That's a
>> *stronger* policy than simply open license. That is to say, I think the
>> memorandum is pretty clear in requiring agencies to use a license that is
>> *both* OKD-style open *as well as* placing no restrictions on use. The only
>> "license" that I know of that does that is CC0 (or the PDDL).
>>
>> Third, the memorandum directs agencies to consult the Project Open Data
>> (POD) github account for implementation advice, but the POD site portrays
>> the policy as if "no restrictions on use" were not in the memorandum. So,
>> again, it's incredibly unclear what the White House intended.
>>
>> Here in the U.S. we have unusually, if not uniquely, strong norms about
>> the government not interfering with public knowledge. Propaganda is
>> illegal. Freedom of the press is incredibly strong (recent events
>> notwithstanding). Requiring attribution to the government, for instance,
>> which might sound reasonable elsewhere, would be a major policy shift with
>> significant legal implications for the press. "No restrictions on use" is
>> our baseline. The consensus in the open data community here has long been
>> that open government data is not "open" (in the sense of the OKD) but
>> license-free. Even though "open license" sounds great, it's actually a step
>> away from freedom.
>>
>> I've written more on this here:
>>
>>
>> http://razor.occams.info/blog/2013/05/09/new-open-data-memorandum-almost-defines-open-data-misses-mark-with-open-licenses/
>>
>>
>> - Josh Tauberer (@JoshData)
>> http://razor.occams.info
>>
>>  On 05/22/2013 02:02 PM, Jonathan Gray wrote:
>>
>>   Thought this might be of interest:
>>
>>  Deciphering licensing in Project Open Data
>>  http://creativecommons.org/weblog/entry/38316
>>
>>  --
>>
>> Jonathan Gray
>>
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>
>
>  --
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>
>  Rufus Pollock
>
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