[Open-Legislation] at4am (dot) eu (was: RE: French civil code on git)

JOSEFSSON Erik erik.josefsson at europarl.europa.eu
Wed Apr 8 12:00:52 UTC 2015

AT4AM is, litteraly, an automatic tool for amendments that we use in the EP. Here's a demo: https://vimeo.com/17598642

The the key purpose of the .5 M€ Pilot Project 26 03 77 05 is to make AT4AM look, feel and behave the same
for all - citizens, MEPs, assistants and staff alike. Money is expected to be allocated before summer.

DFRI keeps one old AT4AM version up and running:


Currently we're trying to run the last version and get a grip on what is different between that version and the EP version:


If you want to help getting more money for this projects, now is the time to write up Pilot Project proposals and try to have them tabled by supportive MEPs:


Would be lovely if you’d subscribe and share your ideas on the at4am.eu list. Here's the archive:


Best regards.


From: open-legislation [open-legislation-bounces at lists.okfn.org] on behalf of Francis Davey [fjmd1a at gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday 8 April 2015 12:34
To: stef
Cc: open-legislation
Subject: Re: [Open-Legislation] French civil code on git

2015-04-08 11:20 GMT+01:00 stef <s at ctrlc.hu<mailto:s at ctrlc.hu>>:

well the data is there, to show diffs, you really don't need git. by using
github, you only 1/ put yourself at the mercy of a commercial service provider

The data may be "there" but I don't know where "there" is for French legislation - so this is nice because I can find it easily.

2/ externalize the development costs of a proper userinterface for doing
diffs. 3/ you ignore at4am.

I spent 5 minutes at at4am and have no idea what is usable there.

Eg the page:



Provide the URL to an Akoma Ntoso document in argument of the editor URL:

But what editor is this? Where do I get it. Hard to tell. For example:


has a two word README that doesn't tell me what I am supposed to do with the source once I have got it. Presumably there's a java applet or something that I run somehow.

There's just nothing obvious on that site on *how* I actually make use of anything there, so I hope that explains why I might be pleased to see some other tool that I do understand how to use.

Are there amendments to the French Civil Code there (for instance)? If not, then it is hardly an alternative. Maybe they are available somehow that way, but in an undocumented way.

So, indeed, github is a commercial service, but so are most web services. At least it uses a standard system (git) which can be used elsewhere.

> Github also makes it easy to clone the corpus elsewhere.

that is a feature of git, not github. also why would you do that? how often is
that a requirement, and how often is git data the best format to do further

What alternatives are there? I mean ones I can actually use right now and that don't require me to write extensive code to access? I had a look at Akoma Ntoso and decided that it was hopelessly wrong in design for representing actual legal texts and haven't bothered to look further.

Being able to clone onto my desktop means I can read it when I am offline, simply, without having to worry about a brand new bit of software and framework.

> I agree that pull requests may be unrealistic, but there is nothing even

hah, of course. but even blame is unrealistic.

I didn't suggest blame as a reason. That was someone else.

> vaguely like that for professional engagement with UK legislation. Drafting
> amendments to existing law would be easier if they could be submitted like
> that.

to me this looks like people with hammers running around and seeing nails

Not me.

Francis Davey

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