[Open-Legislation] at4am (dot) eu (was: RE: French civil code on git)

Wed Apr 8 13:12:25 UTC 2015

Glad to hear that Clemens! :-)

It's really not hard to write up a proposal for a Pilot Project or a Preparatory Action:

http://icg.greens-efa.eu/pipermail/hub/2014-May/000135.html

The hard work starts with trying to get a majority for it.

A proposal that is both sane and interesting helps :-)

//Erik

________________________________
From: Clemens Wass [clemens at wass.at]
Sent: Wednesday 8 April 2015 14:33
To: JOSEFSSON Erik
Cc: Francis Davey; stef; open-legislation
Subject: Re: [Open-Legislation] at4am (dot) eu (was: RE: French civil code on git)

Thank you Erik for the info. This may actually fit in a research project we are currently working on. Perhaps we can do something here.

Best, Clemens

2015-04-08 14:00 GMT+02:00 JOSEFSSON Erik <erik.josefsson at europarl.europa.eu<mailto:erik.josefsson at europarl.europa.eu>>:
AT4AM is, litteraly, an automatic tool for amendments that we use in the EP. Here's a demo: https://vimeo.com/17598642

The the key purpose of the .5 M€ Pilot Project 26 03 77 05 is to make AT4AM look, feel and behave the same
for all - citizens, MEPs, assistants and staff alike. Money is expected to be allocated before summer.

DFRI keeps one old AT4AM version up and running:

http://ghajini.dfri.se:8080/at4am/editor.html?documentID=8

Currently we're trying to run the last version and get a grip on what is different between that version and the EP version:

http://www.asktheeu.org/en/request/at4am_source_code

If you want to help getting more money for this projects, now is the time to write up Pilot Project proposals and try to have them tabled by supportive MEPs:

https://at4am.eu/pipermail/at4am/2015-March/000108.html

Would be lovely if you’d subscribe and share your ideas on the at4am.eu<http://at4am.eu> list. Here's the archive:

https://at4am.eu/pipermail/at4am/

Best regards.

//Erik

________________________________
From: open-legislation [open-legislation-bounces at lists.okfn.org<mailto:open-legislation-bounces at lists.okfn.org>] on behalf of Francis Davey [fjmd1a at gmail.com<mailto:fjmd1a at gmail.com>]
Sent: Wednesday 8 April 2015 12:34
To: stef
Cc: open-legislation
Subject: Re: [Open-Legislation] French civil code on git

2015-04-08 11:20 GMT+01:00 stef <s at ctrlc.hu<mailto:s at ctrlc.hu>>:

well the data is there, to show diffs, you really don't need git. by using
github, you only 1/ put yourself at the mercy of a commercial service provider

The data may be "there" but I don't know where "there" is for French legislation - so this is nice because I can find it easily.

2/ externalize the development costs of a proper userinterface for doing
diffs. 3/ you ignore at4am.

I spent 5 minutes at at4am and have no idea what is usable there.

Eg the page:

http://www.at4am.org/howto/

says

Provide the URL to an Akoma Ntoso document in argument of the editor URL:

But what editor is this? Where do I get it. Hard to tell. For example:

http://code.at4am.org/nsesa-editor

has a two word README that doesn't tell me what I am supposed to do with the source once I have got it. Presumably there's a java applet or something that I run somehow.

There's just nothing obvious on that site on *how* I actually make use of anything there, so I hope that explains why I might be pleased to see some other tool that I do understand how to use.

Are there amendments to the French Civil Code there (for instance)? If not, then it is hardly an alternative. Maybe they are available somehow that way, but in an undocumented way.

So, indeed, github is a commercial service, but so are most web services. At least it uses a standard system (git) which can be used elsewhere.

> Github also makes it easy to clone the corpus elsewhere.

that is a feature of git, not github. also why would you do that? how often is
that a requirement, and how often is git data the best format to do further
processing?

What alternatives are there? I mean ones I can actually use right now and that don't require me to write extensive code to access? I had a look at Akoma Ntoso and decided that it was hopelessly wrong in design for representing actual legal texts and haven't bothered to look further.

Being able to clone onto my desktop means I can read it when I am offline, simply, without having to worry about a brand new bit of software and framework.

> I agree that pull requests may be unrealistic, but there is nothing even

hah, of course. but even blame is unrealistic.

I didn't suggest blame as a reason. That was someone else.

> vaguely like that for professional engagement with UK legislation. Drafting
> amendments to existing law would be easier if they could be submitted like
> that.

to me this looks like people with hammers running around and seeing nails
everywhere.

Not me.

--
Francis Davey

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