[open-science] [Open-access] Elsevier: some facts, by Tim Gowers

Fri May 2 13:08:29 UTC 2014

That is correct, Tom. There is a substantial amount that goes into
licencing. I don't know how that is dealt elsewhere, but at the University
of Auckland those licences do not come out of the libraries budget. (which
is why they don't show in the libraries' expenditures). One would need to
find out for different institutions what office is in charge of negotiating
and paying for Copyright Clearing house costs. Although I would suspect
that even with a Freedom of Information request the actual costs would be
very hard to disclose.
-F

On Sat, May 3, 2014 at 12:26 AM, Tom Olijhoek <tom.olijhoek at gmail.com>wrote:

> So it seems that apart from subscription fees a large amount of money is
> spend by universities on re-use rights for education. And the situation is
> far from transparent because different countries have different rules and
> interpretations.
> It is not clear to me whether the data that we have seen up to now include
> those extra fees.
> Obviously if we are trying to get an overview of publication costs per
> country we have to include these.
> As Michelle said  it would be very good to gather all the data in one spot
> for easy access.
> An overview could be on the open access website, and the raw data on
> Figshare.
> I can make time to help with the coordination
>
>
>
> On Fri, May 2, 2014 at 1:28 PM, Fabiana Kubke <mf.kubke at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> TPM: Technological protection measure != TMR= Technological Murray Rust
>>
>> Now careful, peter, CC0 is a TLA :)
>> So says MFK.... :)
>>
>>
>> On Fri, May 2, 2014 at 11:19 PM, Peter Murray-Rust <pm286 at cam.ac.uk>wrote:
>>
>>> TPM = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Platform_Module ??  I assume
>>> (roughly == Digital Rights Management DRM)
>>> TPP is specific to Pacific. The US has reinvented this as TTIP for
>>> Europe.
>>>
>>> All these TLAs scare me and they act directly against Open
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, May 2, 2014 at 12:02 PM, Fabiana Kubke <mf.kubke at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> And by TMR I meant TPM - I am conflating TPM and PMR! :)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, May 2, 2014 at 10:56 PM, Fabiana Kubke <mf.kubke at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> New zealand does not have fair use - it has fair dealing. Fair use in
>>>>> the US (and I think Canada) allow I think for 10% reproduction of
>>>>> copyrighted material for "fair use".
>>>>>
>>>>> The way this was explained to me by my copyright officer is that for
>>>>> at least some works the education provisions of the copyright act are below
>>>>> the 10% reproduction allowed by fair use so we pay to get the 10%
>>>>> allowance.
>>>>>
>>>>> When libraries buy serial subscriptions (or textbooks), sometimes the
>>>>> contracts have included the reuse of the material for educational purposes
>>>>> (eg in students lecture notes, class slides etc). Some material we purchase
>>>>> does not include this allowance.
>>>>>
>>>>> The university purchases several licences, to the movie industry, the
>>>>> recording industry and the copyright body (I think equivalent to the
>>>>> Clearing House in the US and Canada) that extends the allowance for
>>>>> reproduction for educational use - in essence letting us reach (legally)
>>>>> the 10% (which ouf course US already has through fair use!)
>>>>>
>>>>> If I estimate correctly the UoAuckland would be paying somewhere
>>>>> between 1-2 M NZD p.a. for that privilege. We are lucky that our copyright
>>>>> law has other useful allowances (Like breaking TMR for legal purposes)
>>>>> which saves us a lot of money, althought he TransPacific Partnership
>>>>> agreement may change that . BUt that is a diff story :)
>>>>>
>>>>> Hope that clarifies
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, May 2, 2014 at 10:01 PM, Tom Olijhoek <tom.olijhoek at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, May 2, 2014 at 11:52 AM, Peter Murray-Rust <pm286 at cam.ac.uk>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri, May 2, 2014 at 10:15 AM, Fabiana Kubke <mf.kubke at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I am a bit late to the discussion - but if anyone is interested
>>>>>>>> there is interesting data on library expenditures in New Zealand and
>>>>>>>> Australia here http://statistics.caul.edu.au/inst_data.php
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You're not late... :-) this is very welcome.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  If I read hte data correctly, New Zealand spends about 50 million
>>>>>>>> p.a. (NZ Dollars) in serial subscriptions. This does not include the
>>>>>>>> copyright licencing fees that allow the reuse for education (as far as I
>>>>>>>> understand).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Can you expand on the re-use fees? This is an additional cost to
>>>>>>> subscriptions. Re-use payments are at least as problematic as
>>>>>>> subscriptions. But even harder to get a handle on. (?more FOIs?)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I would think that copyright law always includes fair use policy
>>>>>> which applies especially to use for educational purposes?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> open-science mailing list
>>>>>>> open-science at lists.okfn.org
>>>>>>> https://lists.okfn.org/mailman/listinfo/open-science
>>>>>>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.okfn.org/mailman/options/open-science
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Tom Olijhoek
>>>>>>
>>>>>> coordinator @ccess open access working group  at OKF
>>>>>> DOAJ  member of Advisory Board
>>>>>> freelance advisor for the WorldBank Publishing Group
>>>>>> TEL +(31)645540804
>>>>>> SKYPE tom.olijhoek
>>>>>> Twitter   @ccess
>>>>>> LinkedIn  http://nl.linkedin.com/in/tomolijhoek/
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> M Fabiana Kubke
>>>>> Chair Advisory Panel Creative Commons Aotearoa New Zealand<http://www.creativecommons.org.nz/>
>>>>> Department of Anatomy | University of Auckland | New Zealand
>>>>> (+64) 9 373-7599 Ext 86002 | (+64)9 923 6002 (direct) | Mobile: (+64)
>>>>> 210 437 121
>>>>>
>>>>> Skype: superfabs | http://twitter.com/Kubke |
>>>>> http://twitter.com/DrKupcake | http://blogs.plos.org/mindthebrain/ |
>>>>> http://kubke.wordpress.com |
>>>>> http://buildingblogsofscience.wordpress.com |
>>>>> http://sciblogs.co.nz/building-blogs-of-science |
>>>>> http://popscinz.wordpress.com | http://talkingteaching.wordpress.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> M Fabiana Kubke
>>>> Chair Advisory Panel Creative Commons Aotearoa New Zealand<http://www.creativecommons.org.nz/>
>>>> Department of Anatomy | University of Auckland | New Zealand
>>>> (+64) 9 373-7599 Ext 86002 | (+64)9 923 6002 (direct) | Mobile: (+64)
>>>> 210 437 121
>>>>
>>>> Skype: superfabs | http://twitter.com/Kubke |
>>>> http://twitter.com/DrKupcake | http://blogs.plos.org/mindthebrain/ |
>>>> http://kubke.wordpress.com |
>>>> http://buildingblogsofscience.wordpress.com |
>>>> http://sciblogs.co.nz/building-blogs-of-science |
>>>> http://popscinz.wordpress.com | http://talkingteaching.wordpress.com
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Peter Murray-Rust
>>> Reader in Molecular Informatics
>>> Unilever Centre, Dep. Of Chemistry
>>> University of Cambridge
>>> CB2 1EW, UK
>>> +44-1223-763069
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> M Fabiana Kubke
>> Chair Advisory Panel Creative Commons Aotearoa New Zealand<http://www.creativecommons.org.nz/>
>> Department of Anatomy | University of Auckland | New Zealand
>> (+64) 9 373-7599 Ext 86002 | (+64)9 923 6002 (direct) | Mobile: (+64)
>> 210 437 121
>>
>> Skype: superfabs | http://twitter.com/Kubke |
>> http://twitter.com/DrKupcake | http://blogs.plos.org/mindthebrain/ |
>> http://kubke.wordpress.com | http://buildingblogsofscience.wordpress.com|
>> http://sciblogs.co.nz/building-blogs-of-science |
>> http://popscinz.wordpress.com | http://talkingteaching.wordpress.com
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Tom Olijhoek
> Codex Consult
> www.codexconsult.eu
> coordinator @ccess open access working group  at OKF
> DOAJ  member of Advisory Board
> freelance advisor for the WorldBank Publishing Group
> TEL +(31)645540804
> SKYPE tom.olijhoek
>  Twitter   @ccess
> LinkedIn  http://nl.linkedin.com/in/tomolijhoek/
>
>

-- 
M Fabiana Kubke
Chair Advisory Panel Creative Commons Aotearoa New
Zealand<http://www.creativecommons.org.nz/>
Department of Anatomy | University of Auckland | New Zealand
(+64) 9 373-7599 Ext 86002 | (+64)9 923 6002 (direct) | Mobile: (+64) 210
437 121

Skype: superfabs | http://twitter.com/Kubke | http://twitter.com/DrKupcake|
http://blogs.plos.org/mindthebrain/ | http://kubke.wordpress.com |
http://buildingblogsofscience.wordpress.com |
http://sciblogs.co.nz/building-blogs-of-science |
http://popscinz.wordpress.com | http://talkingteaching.wordpress.com
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