[wdmmg-discuss] coins (fwd)

Sat Feb 20 16:01:56 UTC 2010

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 15:51:45 +0000 (GMT)
From: Lisa Evans <lisa.evans at okfn.org>
To: Julian Todd <julian at goatchurch.org.uk>
Subject: Re: [wdmmg-discuss] coins

Does this help?

http://www.google.co.uk/patents?q=descisys&btnG=Search+Patents

So there are two that fit the description before 2005.

One is "Method and apparatus for data validation in multidimensional
database" which has Filing date: 11 Aug 2004 and Issue date: 29 Apr 2008

http://www.google.co.uk/patents/about?id=VeqqAAAAEBAJ&dq=descisys

The other is "Method and system for integrating workflow management with
business intelligence" with Filing date: 11 Dec 2003:

http://www.google.co.uk/patents/about?id=eT2XAAAAEBAJ&dq=descisys

What specifically should I be pointing out to the Treasury contacts I have
in my next meeting with them on Wednesday?

On Fri, 19 Feb 2010, Julian Todd wrote:

> Couldn't resist it!
> http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/copy_of_the_coins_database
>
> Meanwhile, according to:  http://www.descisys.com/company.html
>
> """Sept 2003  	 Began TeraSolve development; filed two patents for
> validation and input/output systems"""
>
> Anyone got time to track down these two software patents?
>
> It they're used in the product, then that will logically contradict
> the balls about the shape of the data happening to contain trade
> secrets, doesn't it?
>
> Julian.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 9:20 AM, Lisa Evans <lisa.evans at okfn.org> wrote:
> > So in summary:
> >
> > The Intellectual property rights for the 'proprietary database and
> > specifically written application' are with the supplier.
> >
> > So the main reason given for not supplying COINS is:
> >
> > exemption under section 41(1) (information provided in confidence)
> > exemption under section 43(1) (information that constitutes a trade secret)
> > exemption under section 43(2) (information which would prejudice the
> > commercial interests of any person)
> >
> > And then they add on some practical constraints which are irrelevant as far
> > as I can tell.
> >
> > So it seems the next thing is to request evidence of the intellectual
> > property rights.
> >
> > BTW, I find it interesting that they say 'even without the application
> > software, the database platform still contains information structured in
> > such a way that it would be possible to determine the proprietary
> > algorithms used by the application software  and this would also breach
> > the IPR of the supplier',
> >
> > When, in a separate FOI request, HM Treasury have given the field
> > descriptions of COINS broken down by dimensions:
> >
> > http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/25039/response/67260/attach/3/100111%20COINS%20Schema%20for%20FOI%209%201049.xls
> >
> > -----
> >
> > On Fri, 12 Feb 2010, Martin Rosenbaum wrote:
> >
> >> this was their response.
> >> let me know how you get on.
> >> martin
> >>
> >> Martin Rosenbaum
> >> Executive Producer, Radio
> >> BBC Political Programmes, 6th floor, 4 Millbank, London SW1P 3JQ
> >> Tel: 020 7973 6132; Internal: (02) 36132; Mob: 07719 437 761
> >> http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/opensecrets/
> >> http://twitter.com/rosenbaum6
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: okfn.jonathan.gray at googlemail.com
> >> [mailto:okfn.jonathan.gray at googlemail.com] On Behalf Of Jonathan Gray
> >> Sent: 05 February 2010 12:20
> >> To: Martin Rosenbaum
> >> Cc: info at okfn.org; Lisa Evans; wdmmg-discuss at lists.okfn.org; Rufus
> >> Pollock
> >> Subject: Re: coins
> >>
> >> Hi Martin,
> >>
> >> Just to follow on from Rufus's message, FYI, we currently believe COINS
> >> is in SAP and we have identified someone who managed the project.
> >>
> >> Also we are in the process of putting in a new request in consultation
> >> with a group of FOI experts. I wonder whether we might be able to see
> >> the exact wording of your request and response to help us do this?
> >> This would be most useful to help us formulate our angle. As you know
> >> details are all important!
> >>
> >> All the best,
> >>
> >> Jonathan
> >>
> >>
> >> On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 12:13 PM, Martin Rosenbaum
> >> <martin.rosenbaum at bbc.co.uk> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Your link to the coins field definitions doesn't work.
> >>> http://ckan.net/package/coins-field-definitions
> >>>
> >>> Martin
> >>>
> >>> Martin Rosenbaum
> >>> Executive Producer, Radio
> >>> BBC Political Programmes, 6th floor, 4 Millbank, London SW1P 3JQ
> >>> Tel: 020 7973 6132; Internal: (02) 36132; Mob: 07719 437 761
> >>> http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/opensecrets/
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> http://www.bbc.co.uk
> >>> This e-mail (and any attachments) is confidential and may contain
> >>> personal views which are not the views of the BBC unless specifically
> >>
> >> stated.
> >>>
> >>> If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system.
> >>> Do not use, copy or disclose the information in any way nor act in
> >>> reliance on it and notify the sender immediately.
> >>> Please note that the BBC monitors e-mails sent or received.
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> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Jonathan Gray
> >>
> >> Community Coordinator
> >> The Open Knowledge Foundation
> >> http://blog.okfn.org
> >>
> >> Twitter/Identica: jwyg
> >>
> >> http://www.bbc.co.uk/
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> >
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