[wdmmg-discuss] coins

[Julian Todd]

I don't buy the idea that there will be any voluntary release of this
data in the near future.  If there was, they'd be serving a section 22
(Information intended for future publication) exemption.

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/Acts/acts2000/ukpga_20000036_en_3#pt2-l1g22

They did this for Francis when he requested the Statute Law Database.
But it was another 2 years before anything approximating a webpage
went on-line.  They did have a holding page stating that they were
preparing it for publication, though.

----

I did ask someone about this at the rewired state about it, and he
told me we would never get COINS because it is an absolutely
screwed-up barely functional OLAP database.

Looking this up on wikipedia, it sounds like it's a sort of high level
system that Tesco's would use to work out which cities to focus their
investments to make more money, based on their current revenues from
different shops.

It therefore might not be an accounting system at all, but instead
some crappy corporate-sales  visualization tool that is wholly
inappropriate as a means of administrating a nation-state.

In light of this, Martin's FOI rejection letter does not seem to be
quite so outrageous.

In their system, what they term as "noise", is the data we want.
We're not interested in their corporate analysis.

Perhaps we should start going after the inputs.  Do they have a feed
from the Home Office to COINS?  Then tap into that feed.

Julian.







On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 1:39 PM, Simon Rogers
<simon.rogers at guardian.co.uk> wrote:
> Hi
> From what I can gather from an off-the-record chat with the treasury is that
> there will be an announcement on the issue soon. Sorry - best I could get
>
> Simon
>
>
> On 23 March 2010 11:05, Martin Rosenbaum <martin.rosenbaum at bbc.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> Pls let me know if you hear anything from the Treausry - thanks, martin
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: okfn.jonathan.gray at googlemail.com
>> [mailto:okfn.jonathan.gray at googlemail.com] On Behalf Of Jonathan Gray
>> Sent: 23 March 2010 10:53
>> To: Martin Rosenbaum
>> Cc: Julian Todd; wdmmg-discuss at lists.okfn.org
>> Subject: Re: [wdmmg-discuss] coins
>>
>> Thanks for this Martin!
>>
>> Lisa: have you heard any rumours about plans to release COINS from your
>> Treasury contacts? Worth a phonecall?
>>
>> All the best,
>>
>> Jonathan
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 11:41 AM, Martin Rosenbaum
>> <martin.rosenbaum at bbc.co.uk> wrote:
>> > Julian -
>> > many thanks for that, very interesting.
>> > i did ask for an internal review. no answer yet - the foi officer says
>>
>> > it's waiting for senior management to sign it off, but they've been
>> > telling me that for so long I've also made a complaint to the ICO.
>> > however, did you see this on guardian datablog yesterday
>> > http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2010/mar/22/gordon-brown-gover
>> > nment-data which hints they may release coins in next fortnight!?
>> > btw, you've addressed your reply to 'paul morgan' but his actual name
>> > is 'paul morran'.
>> > all best,
>> > martin
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: goatchurch at gmail.com [mailto:goatchurch at gmail.com] On Behalf Of
>> > Julian Todd
>> > Sent: 22 March 2010 21:24
>> > To: Martin Rosenbaum
>> > Cc: Jonathan Gray; wdmmg-discuss at lists.okfn.org; info at okfn.org
>> > Subject: Re: [wdmmg-discuss] coins
>> >
>> > Martin,
>> >
>> > They appear to be gearing up to serve me with a substantially
>> > different suite of exemptions than you got.
>> >
>> > http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/copy_of_the_coins_database#incom
>> > in
>> > g-76711
>> >
>> > Did you ever ask for an internal review?
>> >
>> > I have already sent in my interim response.
>> >
>> > Lisa: Do you agree that a million lines is better than nothing?
>> >
>> > Julian.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Fri, Feb 12, 2010 at 3:59 PM, Martin Rosenbaum
>> > <martin.rosenbaum at bbc.co.uk> wrote:
>> >> this was their response.
>> >> let me know how you get on.
>> >> martin
>> >>
>> >> Martin Rosenbaum
>> >> Executive Producer, Radio
>> >> BBC Political Programmes, 6th floor, 4 Millbank, London SW1P 3JQ
>> >> Tel: 020 7973 6132; Internal: (02) 36132; Mob: 07719 437 761
>> >> http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/opensecrets/
>> >> http://twitter.com/rosenbaum6
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: okfn.jonathan.gray at googlemail.com
>> >> [mailto:okfn.jonathan.gray at googlemail.com] On Behalf Of Jonathan Gray
>> >> Sent: 05 February 2010 12:20
>> >> To: Martin Rosenbaum
>> >> Cc: info at okfn.org; Lisa Evans; wdmmg-discuss at lists.okfn.org; Rufus
>> >> Pollock
>> >> Subject: Re: coins
>> >>
>> >> Hi Martin,
>> >>
>> >> Just to follow on from Rufus's message, FYI, we currently believe
>> >> COINS is in SAP and we have identified someone who managed the
>> > project.
>> >>
>> >> Also we are in the process of putting in a new request in
>> >> consultation
>> >
>> >> with a group of FOI experts. I wonder whether we might be able to see
>>
>> >> the exact wording of your request and response to help us do this?
>> >> This would be most useful to help us formulate our angle. As you know
>>
>> >> details are all important!
>> >>
>> >> All the best,
>> >>
>> >> Jonathan
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 12:13 PM, Martin Rosenbaum
>> >> <martin.rosenbaum at bbc.co.uk> wrote:
>> >>> Your link to the coins field definitions doesn't work.
>> >>> http://ckan.net/package/coins-field-definitions
>> >>>
>> >>> Martin
>> >>>
>> >>> Martin Rosenbaum
>> >>> Executive Producer, Radio
>> >>> BBC Political Programmes, 6th floor, 4 Millbank, London SW1P 3JQ
>> >>> Tel: 020 7973 6132; Internal: (02) 36132; Mob: 07719 437 761
>> >>> http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/opensecrets/
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> http://www.bbc.co.uk
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>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Jonathan Gray
>> >>
>> >> Community Coordinator
>> >> The Open Knowledge Foundation
>> >> http://blog.okfn.org
>> >>
>> >> Twitter/Identica: jwyg
>> >>
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>> --
>> Jonathan Gray
>>
>> Community Coordinator
>> The Open Knowledge Foundation
>> http://blog.okfn.org
>>
>> http://twitter.com/jwyg
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