[pd-discuss] Music in the Public Domain

Tue May 8 09:50:28 UTC 2012

ahh ok.. completely misunderstood! ooops.. i think i have it now.
thanks for clearing it up!

am I right in assuming then that for spoken word, (e.g. a radio
program from the mid 40s) the content provided by the 'speaker' (and
composer of the words, if scripted) is also protected under copyright
until 70 years after the speaker/composer death? (let us assume that
in these cases there is no actual copyright mark attached to a
transcript of the show). Take for example this:
http://publicdomainreview.org/2011/08/07/tokyo-rose-1944/ - would we
have to take this down from the PDR?

On 8 May 2012 00:52, Rufus Pollock <rufus.pollock at okfn.org> wrote:
> On 7 May 2012 20:06, Adam Green <adam.green at okfn.org> wrote:
>> Maarten - I understood it differently. I thought that copyright still
>> applying to the lyrics, music etc of a recording made more than 50
>> years ago only restricted the covering of the song - not the actual
>> redistribution of the recording. ... (or else what would be the point
>> of the distinction between the recording copyright and the
>> lyrics/music copyright, and why all the fuss by The Beatles, Bono,
>> Cliff Ricard etc to get the copyright term extended?)
>
> No, that's wrong. Existence of authorial copyright also prevents
> distribution. It is still a big deal for recording copyright to expire
> though because it means you only need to pay the authorial copyright
> cost -- usually much less -- and can often do this via a collecting
> society. So people with recording copyright (esp music companies and
> "star" artists) lobby hard to keep recording copyright in place.
>
> You can read much more here (from our original discussions in 2005-2006):
>
> <http://wiki.okfn.org/Working_Groups/publicdomain/pdw/law/guide>
>
>> Rufus - any idea when this extension of 50 years to 70 years is due to
>> come into effect?
>
> I'd need to check. I note that IIRC correctly it is retrospective for
> works that have not yet entered the PD but won't cover works *already*
> in the PD (e.g. Glenn Gould's goldberg variations will remain PD ...).
>
> Rufus
>
>> On 7 May 2012 19:29, Maarten Zeinstra <mz at kl.nl> wrote:
>>> Yes, you cannot freely distribute the song unless all layers of copyright
>>> have expired. Outofcopyright.eu has the following to say about sound
>>> recordings (in the UK) that are public domain:
>>>
>>> "Copyright in the sound recording has expired. Please note that a single
>>> item might be protected by multiple layers of rights. You may need to apply
>>> the Public Domain Calculator again to examine whether additional rights
>>> apply, such as copyright protection in any underlying literary or artistic
>>> work or performers’ rights in any performance that may be fixated in the
>>> sound recording."
>>>
>>> So this deals with the lyrics, sheet music, artwork, etc.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Maarten
>>>
>>> Kennisland | Knowledgeland
>>>
>>> t +31205756720 | m +31643053919 | s mzeinstra
>>> www.kennisland.nl | www.knowledgeland.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On May 7, 2012, at 19:07 , Sam Leon wrote:
>>>
>>> Thanks for the responses guys. I'm still trying to get my head round all of
>>> this.
>>>
>>> @Maarten -- do you mean to say that one is not free to redistribute a
>>> recording if the authorial copyright has not expired? This would render any
>>> song written by Sister Rosetta Tharpe not in the public domain.
>>>
>>> However, the song that I linked to ("Down By The River Side") and many
>>> others recorded by Rosetta Tharpe are traditional gospel songs, so this
>>> shouldn't matter too much even if it turns out to be true.
>>>
>>> Sam
>>>
>>> On Mon, May 7, 2012 at 4:40 PM, Maarten Zeinstra <mz at kl.nl> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Also,
>>>>
>>>> Even if the recording is in the public domain, does not mean that the
>>>> lyrics and notes are in the public domain. You do not have the rights to
>>>> distribute a song where only the recording is public domain.
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>>
>>>> Maarten
>>>>
>>>> Kennisland | Knowledgeland
>>>>
>>>> t +31205756720 | m +31643053919 | s mzeinstra
>>>> www.kennisland.nl | www.knowledgeland.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On May 7, 2012, at 17:17 , Rufus Pollock wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > On 7 May 2012 16:10, Sam Leon <sam.leon at okfn.org> wrote:
>>>> >> Dear All,
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Quick question -- copyright for musical recordings made within the EU
>>>> >> expires after 50 years, but what about music that was recorded in the
>>>> >> US?
>>>> >
>>>> > Origin does not matter. BTW in the EU it will soon be 70 years due to
>>>> > the recent extension.
>>>> >
>>>> >> Are, for instance, Sister Rosetta Tharpe's US recordings from 1948,
>>>> >> available on the archive.org, available for free re-use within Europe?
>>>> >
>>>> > Yes - though IANAL etc. Also remember songs have both recording and
>>>> > authorial copyright in them.
>>>> >
>>>> > There used to be a long FAQ about all of this on, I thought,
>>>> > publicdomain.okfn.org based on our analysis of all of this for Elvis'
>>>> > That's Alright (done back in 2005-2006) but I'm not able to find this
>>>> > right now.
>>>> >
>>>> > Rufus
>>>> >
>>>> >> Advice much appreciated, as I'm due to be curating some of this amazing
>>>> >> vocalists songs for a website in the coming weeks.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Thanks,
>>>> >> Sam
>>>> >>
>>>> >> --
>>>> >> Sam Leon
>>>> >> Community Coordinator
>>>> >> Open Knowledge Foundation
>>>> >> http://okfn.org/
>>>> >> Twitter: @noeL_maS
>>>> >> Skype: samedleon
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
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>>>> >>
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > --
>>>> > Co-Founder, Open Knowledge Foundation
>>>> > Promoting Open Knowledge in a Digital Age
>>>> > http://www.okfn.org/ - http://blog.okfn.org/
>>>> >
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>>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Sam Leon
>>> Community Coordinator
>>> Open Knowledge Foundation
>>> http://okfn.org/
>>> Twitter: @noeL_maS
>>> Skype: samedleon
>>>
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>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Adam Green
>>
>> Editor, The Public Domain Review
>> http://publicdomainreview.org/
>>
>> The Open Knowledge Foundation
>> http://okfn.org/
>>
>>
>> --
>> Adam Green
>>
>> Editor, The Public Domain Review
>> http://publicdomainreview.org/
>>
>> The Open Knowledge Foundation
>> http://okfn.org/
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> pd-discuss mailing list
>> pd-discuss at lists.okfn.org
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>
>
>
> --
> Co-Founder, Open Knowledge Foundation
> Promoting Open Knowledge in a Digital Age
> http://www.okfn.org/ - http://blog.okfn.org/
>
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--
Adam Green

Editor, The Public Domain Review
http://publicdomainreview.org/

The Open Knowledge Foundation
http://okfn.org/

-- 
Adam Green

Editor, The Public Domain Review
http://publicdomainreview.org/

The Open Knowledge Foundation
http://okfn.org/