[wsfii-discuss] Economic Sustainability of Community Wireless(sorry had to resend due to incorrect hyperlink)

Tue Apr 10 11:06:36 UTC 2007

Ramon,
   Sorry you misunderstood me.  I am not here to belittle  your & the rest
contribution. In fact people like me are over whelmed by the  empathy.  but
unfortunately despite all the money & mind , still little trickles down to
where it matters most.  Guifi & others work is indisputably admirable & if
the same way it happens in the rest of the world that will be great.

Unfortunately from what ever I saw & got to hear in Dharamshala , tells me
we need to adopt different models.
Cooperative approach is possible in participation of equals.   It worked
well for Catalonia .

but in the rural area of  Asia &  Africa where  70% + of population do not
know how to read.  ( In Catalonia its reverse ) . Thus addressing issues
like basic literacy is way ahead of  digital literacy . The funds are too
short,  to take care of basic Infrastructure  or  health care. & here  we do
have hope  bridging the digital divide = access to information maybe a
panacea to attack this multi hydra  monster  of perennial deprivation.
Thus investment in local  community networks is met with skepticism.

& Here one fine day  A good Samaritan offers this dope , build the
infrastructure  from the donation  he/ she has gathered .  He has everyones
goodwill .  but still it failed to address many  of the issues promised .
Eventually the good Samaritan has to leave . but the locals do not even
know too well to  manage  nor are able to prioritise the funds in
maintaining it.  Thus eventually everything  is back to square one . The
donors are hurt .  The locals bitter, They too invested their precious time
= money .

The case is not merely of misplaced expectation  but  lack of patience &
competence.  Thus eventually  such projects maybe looked with deep suspicion
.

You may also wonder as why there is limited participation  in the  open
source movement & in International forum discussing Internet governance from
III & IVth world  nations.

While you highlighted the ugly part of the large corporates .  I am willing
to experiment  for  an open partnership  opportunities.
To clarify what attracts me to the "FON  networks" type of opportunity  is
they give an opportunity to all stake holder to make money out by hosting
the hub- the social router. & may make a very attractive proposition to get
a wider base of participation. This promises to get the quintessential
ubiquity of  network possible & faster.

The Big brother in the centre as my partner in  prosperity also promises to
be responsible  at the time of adversity. like network attacks etc. &
sustain me before I get the results.  I see it worth while to pay the  Big
brother for reliability. & willing to sacrifice my certain freedom , to
assure him take a greater risk on behalf of us . for I do not know the
outcome even for many years after the network has been setup.  The choice of
technology is  bewildering & it is still evolving .  This approach may bring
committed partners.

Now having said that,  I do agree to your  cautions  if I am locked in a
proprietary technology & where the  Big brother fails to deliver should
certainly worry me.  My premium for partnership is for hand holding ,
capability to deliver & dependability.   nothing more.  Maybe Under a bigger
Umbrella say like WSFII . It will ensure I am not talked down because I am
small & help me find an alternative  if my current service provider
consistently disappoints me.

Regards

Ashish

On 4/6/07, Ramon Roca <ramon.roca at guifi.net> wrote:
>
> Ashram,
>
> I might be in a "developed country", but still living in an area with no
> broadband access, and my need is for *today* also.
> To say that I don't love freedom sounds to me *very unpolite* from your
> part.
> Be sure that business models of choice could make the difference between
> building a developed country, or keep it with the permanent need of
> subsidization or being a food for parasites. We can be in a mistake
> while doing the choice, we are human being, but there is no mistake in
> that those two types of of business models exist, so i recommend you to
> take your time to analyze things carefully.
> And by the way, you are talking about an angel or just your imagination?
> Did that angel really help you?
>
>
> En/na Assoc of Public ICT Tools Access Prov ha escrit:
> > Ramon,
> >      Your point clearly brings in the difference of approach in a
> > developing country & developed.
> > Who won't love the FREEdom .  Today I do not have anything to choose
> > from, so well as might let me make choice.
> > The community networks however we deny requires huge leadership  & a
> > large seed capital.  The cooperative movement is missing. In India the
> > the last successful cooperative happened some 40 years ago.  & I
> > cannot keep waiting for it to revive . My need is for TODAY.
> >
> > The Emerging economy actually needs the cutting technology the most
> > but don't have that  leadership.  Only Social entrepreneurship  can
> > succeed , with some profits instead of no profits to remain independent.
> >
> > The comparison is like between a Walmart & E-bay.   They both may make
> > many unhappy but at least have a choice.  & of course WSFII can show
> > case more model which have been successful & under what circumstances.
> > Djursland was lucky to have Bjarke .  So either  we should  set up a
> > large scale Human clone facility .  or leave  it to free enterprise .
> > Just make all the secrets open. ( which any way we are doing ) . there
> > will be little left in throttling an enterprise.
> > The Enterprise pays for execution & not hot talk shop which are
> > indulging . ;-) .
> >
> > Thus I completely agree with you  but as I don't see an Angel around
> > &  I am reluctantly ready to settle with lesser evil.
> >
> > Ashish
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 4/5/07, *Ramon Roca* <ramon.roca at guifi.net
> > <mailto:ramon.roca at guifi.net>> wrote:
> >
> >     En/na Assoc of Public ICT Tools Access Prov ha escrit:
> >     >
> >     >
> >     > So if Voice is a killer app & if you can help bring a plan where
> you
> >     > can not only reduce your budget  & maybe as well Profit from
> >     > Participation, like a FON http://www.fon.com/en/ . by investing
> >     > nominal money.
> >     Good news to see interest from IT companies in developing technology
> >     suitable for developing wireless communities/entrepreneurs.
> >     Having said that, be careful with the examples mentioned and be away
> >     from any confusion. In this case, although there is an intensive
> >     use of
> >     the "community" aesthetics and philanthropist look, is a private
> held
> >     company, and in reality their attitude has been aggressive to any
> >     other
> >     community which is not them or denying any form of net neutrality:
> >     Instead of helping communities or providing broadband access to
> >     everyone, they are only interested in who already have broadband
> >     access
> >     and give it to them for free to resell to those who don't have,
> >     forcing
> >     to be a only provider.
> >     Please note that their model is very much invasive (only works if
> the
> >     private company is dominant) and parasite (feeded by those who
> >     already
> >     have something to give away).
> >
> >     And since they started they operations, and is going to be 2 years
> >     from
> >     now, they have been very loyal to their principles, with no
> exception,
> >     and no changes, although have been several times warned about all
> >     of this.
> >
> >     Just think twice, if that model works, we'll have just another
> >     monopoly.
> >     Don't listen just the nice words they say, please look to what they
> do
> >     and what's really behind.
> >
> >     I would not say that's any model of economic sustainability. There
> >     is a
> >     lots of other better examples.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Association of Public ICT Tools Access Provider
> > http://www.apiap.org
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > wsfii-discuss mailing list
> > wsfii-discuss at lists.okfn.org
> > http://lists.okfn.org/mailman/listinfo/wsfii-discuss
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> wsfii-discuss mailing list
> wsfii-discuss at lists.okfn.org
> http://lists.okfn.org/mailman/listinfo/wsfii-discuss
>

-- 
Association of Public ICT Tools Access Provider
http://www.apiap.org
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.okfn.org/pipermail/wsfii-discuss/attachments/20070410/4a667f08/attachment-0001.html>