[open-government] UK Government transparency update (and democracy?)

Sat Dec 11 11:50:08 UTC 2010

Hey all,

This is an interesting discussion.

It's worth noting democracy is a contested term - and there are many
different models of democracy that open data could be used to support - and
so sometimes confusion about whether or not particular initiatives are
supportive of democracy can be a question of what sort of democracy they are
prioritising (e.g. consumer democracy; direct democracy; competitive
electoral democracy).

I tried in this section of my dissertation (
http://practicalparticipation.co.uk/odi/report/2010/4-3-civic-uses-of-ogd/)
to put forward at least three different routes by which open data features
in democratic change (based on analysis of 40+ cases of OGD use):

   - *#1) Formal political participation* - where access to data allows
   people (& media) to hold representatives to account; campaign for change; or
   use the ballot box to force policy changes.

   - *#2) Collaboration and co-production* - Collaboration broadly being
   where open data allows individuals and groups of citizens to more closely
   engage in the policy making process, in ongoing dialogue with both
   elected representatives, and, frequently, officials. Co-production broadly
   being where access to data supports the creation of improved solutions to
   public service problems through both enterprise and state being able to work
   together (explicitly collaborating, or through loose collaboration);

   - *#3) Individual choice/market participation* - where data supports more
   efficient services and promotes individual choice over the public services
   they receive. Data empowers individual citizens to be less beholden to
   collective decisions.

Conventional entrepreneurial uses of open data tend to have more in common
with co-production (2) and consumerist (3) models of democracy than with
ideas of democracy as collective decision making (1).

Some who focus on democracy as a process of collectively coming together to
solve problems (1/2) might even see individualism promoted by (3) as
corrosive of democracy.

Some assorted questions (with a variety of models of democracy in mind) that
might be useful for thinking about democratic dimensions of open data
include:

* Does the way open data is being made available at the moment promote
equality of access to the data people need to improve their lives? (for
which either ask about 'equality' in a formal sense, or 'in practice')

* Who gains and looses power as a result of the release of open data?

* Are groups working to promote democratic participation at a grass roots
level well represented in the 'open data community'? Should they be? Or is
open data about a new generation of politically empowered actors reshaping
the state?

* Who is deciding what data is released? Has it been debated in parliament?
Is access to data a right? Or only the grant of officials?

On reflection - I think I saw elements of many of those questions being
explored in pockets around OGD Camp - but questions like this didn't emerge
at all as a core theme - nor did I see any of these conversations break
through to main sessions. (As an aside: I think that does raise some need
for future events to think carefully about facilitation, information and
making sure everyone can access, shape and navigate the programme).

All the best

Tim

2010/12/10 Roy Peled <roypeled at gmail.com>

> I realize some people are in it for the business benefits it might
> generate, but I give them the credit of realizing its democratic
> implications. That's why I am less alarmed. As I said, it might not be their
> *main* concern, but I see not how it contradicts. They might not be the ones
> pushing for more meaningful post-release obligations, visualization,
> education, etc... but not everybody has to do everything. The question is
> would they damage the open-data efforts somehow. I can see how that can
> happen, but think it is highly unlikely. It would just be too transparent...
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 11:15 PM, Andrew Ecclestone <andrew at ecclestone.net
> > wrote:
>
>> Because it's entirely possible to advocate for open access to government
>> held datasets so that your commercial enterprise (or future commercial
>> enterprise) can be (a) viable and/or (b) more profitable.  You don't have to
>> believe in democracy, or that enabling greater access to government held
>> datasets will facilitate greater participation or accountability.  You could
>> quite easily believe in a minimalist vision of the state which merely
>> regulates (with a light touch, of course) the provision of services by
>> competing private enterprises.
>>
>> Let's be clear that EU moves on re-use were stimulated by envy of the size
>> of the information economy in the US, not because they had some great vision
>> for enhanced public participation in the formulation of policy.
>>
>> 'Give us the Ordnance Survey digital mastermap' is about reducing the cost
>> of inputs to boost profitability (with the idea that taxation of corporate
>> profits will more than compensate for lost sales revenue that funded OS's
>> data gathering); the fact that liberalising access to digital maps also
>> enables FixMyStreet is beneficial externality.
>>
>> At least, that's how I understand some of Paola's concerns.  Since I
>> wasn't at the OGDCamp, I can't speak about control of the agenda etc.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>>
>> Andrew
>>
>>
>>
>> On 11 Dec 2010, at 9:31 AM, Roy Peled wrote:
>>
>> Sorry guys, Im having a hard time understanding this post. Paola, can you
>> please elaborate what it is exactly that you found disturbing. I myself
>> cannot see how someonw can work to promote open-data and not see its
>> implications in terms of accountability and democratic participation. It
>> might be that he/she are in it for other reasons and the democratic aspect
>> is not their *main* concern, so be it. But I can't see how they can be
>> hostile to the idea of democracy, as if so - why release data to the demos?
>>
>> So please try to explain what it is exactly that you heard or read that
>> bothered you so we can better understand where the problem is if at all.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Roy
>>
>> 2010/12/10 Paola Di Maio <paola.dimaio at gmail.com>
>>
>>> Hi Dave!
>>>
>>> thanks for reply
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I actually think most people in the open government movement see open
>>>> data and open government as reinforcing democracy... indeed, for many I
>>>> think democracy is a presumed precondition for greater transparency
>>>>
>>>
>>> Of course, this is what I also thought, that's my point.
>>>
>>> But based on conversations and email exchanges ( may send you a snip)
>>> some people who are riding the open government data wave do not believe in
>>> democracy at all, or rather, they believe its a 'nice idea that does not
>>> work'. Not only they avoid the subject, they avoid answering questions,
>>> expliciTly state that they do not have to be accountable to anyone,  make it
>>> plain that democracy is not part of their ethos.
>>>
>>> Thats what put me on the alert a bit.
>>>
>>> Perhaps we should organise a panel at the next OGDCamp - or other related
>>> events, (an open panel) to dig a bit deeper into various interesting aspects
>>> of the relationship between open data and democracy.
>>>
>>> I am particulary interested in exploring  ' what mechanisms can monitor
>>> the uptake of democratic processes in relation to open government data
>>> initiatives' , that is, how do we know , for example, that everyone gets the
>>> chance to show their work, and inclusion in the open government agenda  is
>>> not engineered and orchestrated by an elite who decides who gets a slot to
>>> speak, and who does not?
>>>
>>> A lot can be inferred by the organisational processes in place, and what
>>> arterfacts are used to share information and decision making (is a wiki
>>> actually open to all and used for planning? or is the wiki just used as a
>>> facade to show what someone behind the scene may have planned?)
>>>
>>> Look forward to explore the topic further
>>>
>>>
>>> PDM
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> . Moreover, the fact that TBL and others talk so much about the need for
>>>> data journalists is a recognition that the data being liberated in of itself
>>>> is not enough, we need a way to ensure that it gets into the regular
>>>> discourse and empowers citizens of all stripes.
>>>>
>>>> I'd love to see the clips/references you refer to as I really didn't get
>>>> the same vibe out of OGDcamp at all - quite the opposite, really felt like
>>>> most of the people in the room see themselves as advocates of democratic
>>>> values.
>>>>
>>>> cheers,
>>>> dave eaves
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 10-12-09 12:17 PM, Luigi Selmi wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Paola,
>>>> I was at the OGDCamp in London but don't think to be the one that gave
>>>> you a card since I do not have cards. It is true that the term 'democracy'
>>>> doesn't come up very often when talking about transparency. Maybe it is
>>>> because there are a lot of people that comes from governments and
>>>> institutions that are more interested in the functioning of the current
>>>> practices and do not pay attention to what happen outside, to all the events
>>>> that send us signs of a crisis of the representative democracy. I live in
>>>> Italy and we have been experimenting for more than 16 years all the issues
>>>> about that. The last of these days is the of deputies' votes shopping to
>>>> support the current government. We are at the far edge of the representative
>>>> democracy crisis but also in the US and other western countries there are a
>>>> lot of issues that come up every time and cannot be solved within the
>>>> current model of democracy. We need transparency because we need the
>>>> knowledge to intervene every day not just to chose someone to go in the
>>>> parliament.
>>>>
>>>> Best Regards
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Luigi Selmi
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>> Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2010 17:51:17 +0000
>>>> Subject: Re: [open-government] UK Government transparency update (and
>>>> democracy?)
>>>> From: paola.dimaio at gmail.com
>>>> To: selmi_luigi at hotmail.com
>>>> CC: open-government at lists.okfn.org
>>>>
>>>> Luigi
>>>>
>>>>  I obviously agree with you, and became terrified when I found out that
>>>> democracy, according to some working in the OGDCamp, is just an optional
>>>>
>>>>  (will send you a copy of the relevant snippets of email exchanges
>>>> separately, if you are interested)
>>>>
>>>>  What some of us defend and uphold by default  - democratic principles
>>>> and civil liberties as the foundation for good governance, including
>>>> self-governance - does not  always seem to be reflected in the philosophy of
>>>> current open government initiatives - quite the contrary, to my worry.
>>>>
>>>>  Democracy should never be taken for granted, but unfortunately  self
>>>> organisation is sometimes used as an excuse to justify the chaos where
>>>>  great inequalities, deliberate omissions and lack of democratic processes
>>>> become hidden and take place without anyone noticing.
>>>>
>>>>  Until we no longer can tell who is running the show, using what rules
>>>> of the game.
>>>>
>>>>  Perhaps at the next Camp we should propose this topic for discussion,
>>>>  and find a way to demand that the agenda is managed transparently and
>>>> fairly.
>>>>
>>>>  I will analyse the ODGCamp corpus when its published to see if we find
>>>> any instances of the word democracy that I may have missed on the day
>>>>
>>>>  PDM
>>>>
>>>>  (are you the Luigi who gave me his card? i am still going thru my
>>>> notes, will catch up soon)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 4:29 PM, Luigi Selmi <selmi_luigi at hotmail.com>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  If 'transparency of information' is not related to democracy I wonder
>>>> why bother about it ? Open data and open government are steps towards a new
>>>> kind of democracy, more partecipatory, something that goes beyond the
>>>> representative democracy without falling into populism and
>>>> plebiscitaniarism.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Luigi
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>> Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2010 16:09:17 +0000
>>>> From: paola.dimaio at gmail.com
>>>> To: javier at openrightsgroup.org
>>>> CC: open-government at lists.okfn.org
>>>> Subject: [open-government] UK Government transparency update (and
>>>> democracy?)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Javier
>>>>
>>>> thanks for the update
>>>>
>>>>  one the words that I have not seen come up much at the OGCAMP
>>>> is 'democracy', in fact some people cringed when I dared mention it
>>>>
>>>>  Some 'activists' seem to take the view that 'democratic process' is
>>>> not that much related
>>>> to 'trasparency of information'
>>>>
>>>>  Let us know when you hear of something in that respect
>>>>
>>>>  cheers
>>>>
>>>>  PDM
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2010/12/7 Javier Ruiz Diaz <javier at openrightsgroup.org>
>>>>
>>>>  Dear all
>>>>
>>>>  It seems they were listening during the OGD camp.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://www.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/about-cabinet-office/plans-performance/transparency-privacy-data.aspx
>>>>
>>>>  Tentatively good news, lets see the details in the next few days.
>>>>
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