[euopendata] Dutch Interior Minister proposes FOIA amendments

Wed Jun 8 11:12:02 UTC 2011

The crucial thing here from a transparency point of view is not what is
proactive or reactive, but the unknown unknowns that the consistent failure
to implement anything close to assets registers creates.

On 8 June 2011 11:57, Jonathan Gray <jonathan.gray at okfn.org> wrote:

> On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 12:49 PM, Paola Di Maio <paola.dimaio at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Thanks for clarification
> >
> > yes, publishing proactively is the way but....  even that needs to be
> 'managed'
>
> Of course.
>
> > At the moment, organisations  are encouraged to publish proactively,
> > however, few of them do it 'in a meaningful way' (other than for
> > window dressing)
>
> Some do. E.g. the commitments to release fine grained spending data in
> the UK. It might not be perfect, but I consider it a difficult to
> implement and meaningful step! (The internal opposition that it has
> been met with is perhaps testimony to this...)
>
> > There should be some minimum legal standard of proactivity
> > mandated, imho (for example: organisations should at least publish xyz
> > information proactively, every so often etc)
>
> Indeed. Much like the Open Government Directive in the US. Which is,
> as you say, difficult to implement and needs to be managed. I
> understand they've had a hard time getting departments to comply.
>
> > Also I prefer to look at open data adoption and FOIA as independent
>
> Absolutely. There is room for more of a rapprochement [1], but broadly
> agree that in practise it make sense to treat them separately. That
> said Katleen Janssen at KU Leuven has done some interesting and
> compelling work that these should more closely connected [2].
>
> [1] e.g. as we argue in: http://writetoreply.org/beyondaccess/
> [2]
> http://blog.okfn.org/2010/07/21/one-information-policy-for-freedom-of-information-and-re-use/
>
> > FOIA is there to address the need of accessing info which is obviously
> > not open (the other end of the problem spectrum)
> >
> > Similarly, publishing 'useless'  open data also does not help
>
> Agree!
>
> J.
>
> > Cheers
> >
> > P
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 11:41 AM, Jonathan Gray <jonathan.gray at okfn.org>
> wrote:
> >> Sorry! I should have explained. Bad news re: limiting FOIA. Good news
> >> re: open data. The good news was:
> >>
> >>> there is also in terms of
> >>> open data a lot to be liked:
> >>> no copyright or database right claims by any public service body
> >>> maximum charge for getting material is incremental cost of
> distribution,
> >>> with no charging at all being also fine. This holds for all PSBs,
> including
> >>> the ones currently charging for their data.
> >>> Data catalogue explicitly mentioned as instrument in stimulating
> publication
> >>> and data re-use.
> >>> PSBs encouraged to much more pro-actively publish their material
> >>
> >> Its worth also noting the argument that proactive release of open data
> >> mitigates the need for resources to deal with FOI requests for this
> >> data. I.e. if you publish it proactively (preferably as open data!)
> >> then you might not have as many requests to deal with. Anyone know
> >> anything good that has been written about this? Any case studies?
> >>
> >> But of course I think that this is tangential to debates about what
> >> level of resource commitment is appropriate for dealing with FOI
> >> requests properly. (Pointing out that there are cheaper ingredients is
> >> different from saying anything about the appropriate cost of the whole
> >> cake, how much of a commitment to the cake should be made, etc!)
> >>
> >> J.
> >>
> >> On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 12:27 PM, Paola Di Maio <paola.dimaio at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>>> Fantastic news!
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> Johnny, where exactly is the fantastic news? please explain?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> PDM
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Ton: I also have been meaning to ask - are there any Dutch civil
> >>>> servants that we could ask to write a brief overview of open data in
> >>>> the Netherlands for OKF blog, and to invite to the euopendata list,
> >>>> future events, etc?
> >>>>
> >>>> J.
> >>>>
> >>>> On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 12:14 PM, Ton Zijlstra <ton.zijlstra at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>>>> Hi all,
> >>>>> The Dutch minister for the interior recently made a speech on the
> 'day for
> >>>>> freedom of the press' in which he suggested to limit the FOIA as it
> was a
> >>>>> lot of work for the civil servants involved. That was met with a lot
> of
> >>>>> protest of course.
> >>>>> Meanwhile the minister has send a letter to parliament stating the
> actual
> >>>>> changes he wants to make to the FOIA.
> >>>>> While those protest causing elements are indeed also in the letter
> (though
> >>>>> in a less worrying way than one might have feared) there is also in
> terms of
> >>>>> open data a lot to be liked:
> >>>>> no copyright or database right claims by any public service body
> >>>>> maximum charge for getting material is incremental cost of
> distribution,
> >>>>> with no charging at all being also fine. This holds for all PSBs,
> including
> >>>>> the ones currently charging for their data.
> >>>>> Data catalogue explicitly mentioned as instrument in stimulating
> publication
> >>>>> and data re-use.
> >>>>> PSBs encouraged to much more pro-actively publish their material
> >>>>> Level of knowledge on FOIA and re-use to be raised with all PSBs.
> >>>>> more
> >>>>> here
> http://www.epsiplatform.eu/news/news/dutch_letter_to_parliament_on_foia
> >>>>> best,
> >>>>> Ton
> >>>>> -------------------------------------------
> >>>>> Interdependent Thoughts
> >>>>> Ton Zijlstra
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ton at tonzijlstra.eu
> >>>>> +31-6-34489360
> >>>>>
> >>>>> http://zylstra.org/blog
> >>>>> -------------------------------------------
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> euopendata mailing list
> >>>>> euopendata at lists.okfn.org
> >>>>> http://lists.okfn.org/mailman/listinfo/euopendata
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> Jonathan Gray
> >>>>
> >>>> Community Coordinator
> >>>> The Open Knowledge Foundation
> >>>> http://blog.okfn.org
> >>>>
> >>>> http://twitter.com/jwyg
> >>>> http://identi.ca/jwyg
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> euopendata mailing list
> >>>> euopendata at lists.okfn.org
> >>>> http://lists.okfn.org/mailman/listinfo/euopendata
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Jonathan Gray
> >>
> >> Community Coordinator
> >> The Open Knowledge Foundation
> >> http://blog.okfn.org
> >>
> >> http://twitter.com/jwyg
> >> http://identi.ca/jwyg
> >>
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Jonathan Gray
>
> Community Coordinator
> The Open Knowledge Foundation
> http://blog.okfn.org
>
> http://twitter.com/jwyg
> http://identi.ca/jwyg
>
> _______________________________________________
> euopendata mailing list
> euopendata at lists.okfn.org
> http://lists.okfn.org/mailman/listinfo/euopendata
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.okfn.org/pipermail/euopendata/attachments/20110608/8371a697/attachment-0001.html>