[foundation-board] Panton Fellowships operations - RFC

Thu Jan 5 18:01:06 UTC 2012

On Thu, Jan 5, 2012 at 5:57 PM, Becky Hogge <becky.hogge at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Jan 5, 2012 4:42 PM, "Ben Laurie" <ben at links.org> wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 5, 2012 at 4:23 PM, Becky Hogge <becky.hogge at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > On 5 January 2012 16:17, Becky Hogge <becky.hogge at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> On 5 January 2012 16:13, Ben Laurie <ben at links.org> wrote:
>> >>> On Thu, Jan 5, 2012 at 3:49 PM, Becky Hogge <becky.hogge at gmail.com>
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>>> If the former, it strikes
>> >>>> me that regulation BIM65155 (in general, awards and grants are not
>> >>>> taxable) applies to this money, and in any case, the matter will be
>> >>>> for the Fellow and not for us. If the latter, the wording you've
>> >>>> included looks similar enough to contracts I have signed that exempt
>> >>>> my co-signers from being liabile for my tax affairs for me not to be
>> >>>> concerned.
>> >>>
>> >>> It is not possible to sign away employer's PAYE liability.
>> >>
>> >> I work as a contractor and routinely sign contracts which indicate I
>> >> am not an employee, and therefore that I am responsible for my own tax
>> >> affairs.
>> >
>> > But it's also true that the revenue would hold us liable for tax in
>> > any case, if it turned out that we were treating the fellows as
>> > employees (they had no other source of income, worked using our
>> > facilities etc).
>>
>> Precisely.
>>
>> > In this case I think I don't think we run the risk of
>> > that, particularly as we're stipulating that they should have paid
>> > work concurrent with the fellowship.
>>
>> Again, you cannot contract away your liability!
>
> Indeed, my assertion was that we are decreasing the risk of being liable in
> the eyes of hmrc because this stipulation will mean we are not the fellow's
> sole source of income.

Call me cynical, but what it means is that if we are his sole source
of income, he will be in breach and we will owe taxes.

>
>
>>
>> I am reasonably sure it's fine
>> >>
>> >>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Cheers
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Becky
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On 3 January 2012 13:16, Laura James <laura.james at okfn.org> wrote:
>> >>>>> Many apologies - I meant OSI not shuttleworth. Please write this off
>> >>>>> as first day of year confusion.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> On the question of the OSI intent, we are certainly doing what we
>> >>>>> said
>> >>>>> we'd do in the grant application, but I haven't seen a formal
>> >>>>> funding
>> >>>>> agreement.  Rufus - any ideas where this might be?  Doesn't seem to
>> >>>>> be
>> >>>>> in google docs or dropbox.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> On 3 January 2012 11:53, Ben Laurie <ben at links.org> wrote:
>> >>>>>> On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 11:14 AM, Laura James <laura.james at okfn.org>
>> >>>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>> a) The agreement doesn't seem to say they need to follow the
>> >>>>>> principles themselves, which seems a little odd.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Good point, I'll get that added in :)
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>> b) "This is not employment" - is that sufficient to avoid tax
>> >>>>>> liability (particularly PAYE)? Have we checked?
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> This is a somewhat opaque area, but some relevant material is
>> >>>>> included
>> >>>>> below. Since we are not asking for services (although clause 11 in
>> >>>>> the
>> >>>>> agreement could perhaps be read as such), and this is a grant/award
>> >>>>> to
>> >>>>> researchers, in the mould of similar schemes, I feel this we are OK
>> >>>>> and exempt from PAYE etc in this case, but if you'd like me to dig
>> >>>>> into this further I can.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Laura
>> >>>>> Laura
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/eimanual/EIM06250.htm
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> EIM06250 - Employment income: scholarship income: miscellaneous
>> >>>>> awards: research awards or fellowships
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Section 776 IT(TOI)A 2005 (Section 331 ICTA 1988)
>> >>>>> Research awards or fellowships are sometimes offered to qualified
>> >>>>> individuals, who have normally completed their post-graduate
>> >>>>> training,
>> >>>>> to enable them to undertake a specific research project over a fixed
>> >>>>> period.... Whether payments made to the holder of the award or
>> >>>>> fellowship are chargeable to tax will depend on the particular
>> >>>>> facts.
>> >>>>> There is unlikely to be a contract of employment. If the holder of
>> >>>>> the
>> >>>>> award is engaged under an enforceable contract to provide services,
>> >>>>> for example, to research a particular project, in return for a fee
>> >>>>> any
>> >>>>> liability to tax will be under the Miscellaneous Income rules (see
>> >>>>> BIM65151).
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/bimmanual/BIM65155.htm
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> BIM65155 - Research grants and fellowships: British Academy
>> >>>>> As a result of discussions with the British Academy, the Board have
>> >>>>> agreed that in general, awards and grants are not taxable. Where,
>> >>>>> however, such awards are received in the course of the beneficiary's
>> >>>>> profession or vocation, advice should be obtained from Business Tax
>> >>>>> (Technical). As regards other awards see SE06200 and following, and
>> >>>>> BIM50710.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> _______________________________________________
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>> >>>>
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