[od-discuss] OD v2 accepts Excel as OpenData?!???

Aaron Wolf wolftune at riseup.net
Sat Nov 15 00:57:35 UTC 2014


+1 with everything here from Herb. See my very similar reply already.

I suggested that something about "process" area clarify that it's about not have degradation when accessed with free/libre/open software

On 11/14/2014 11:57 AM, Herb Lainchbury wrote:
> "* Is the word "Specifically" helping?"
> I don't think so.
>
> "* Data should or must be...?"
> If we want to tighten it up I think a *must* is in order.
> * The **work** *must* be provided in an open, convenient and modifiable
> form such that...
>
> "* Does published specification matter? Does an ad-hoc format that is
> not restricted by any means make a work non-open? Consider CSV variations."
> I would say, no.  It doesn't matter and new open formats and
> micro-formats are being invented all the time.
>
> "* Should "or, at the very least" be "and"?"
> Maybe.  I think we could actually simplify it a bit more at the same
> time.  I would also like to take out the i.e. and make it part of the text.
> * Data must be machine-readable and provided in an open format.  An open
> format is one with a freely available published specification which
> places no restrictions, monetary or otherwise, upon its use and can be
> processed with at least one free/libre/open-source software tool.
>
> I removed the "bulk" part of the statement because while I think we can
> tighten up the machine-readable and open format part, I think the "bulk"
> is a *should* or *recommended*.  I don't think providing data piecemeal
> necessarily makes it not open as inconvenient as it might be. I think it
> still needs to be mentioned but as a *should* or a *recommended*
> statement in this section.
> * Data *should* be provided in bulk where possible.
>
> "* What does "processed" mean? Possibly something stronger needed. For a
> long time (probably could argue still, though not my experience) OO.o
> (now LO) could "process" OOXML files but not well."
> Not sure what do do about this.  "read" doesn't seem any better.  "parsed"?
>
> "Should the clause effectively require that no rents must be paid by
> anyone, to anyone (patent holder or software vendor) for any use in
> order for the work to be open, that is comport with " anyone can freely
> access, use, modify, and share for any purpose (subject, at most, to
> requirements that preserve provenance and openness)"?"
> I would say yes.  There can't be a fee required by anyone to anyone for
> the rights to use the work.  It's partially covered in access, but
> that's probably insufficient as it's possible to access some data for
> free but still be required to pay someone.  is this an "open format"
> issue though.  Could be I suppose.
>
> H
>
>
> On Sat, Nov 8, 2014 at 9:55 AM, Mike Linksvayer <ml at gondwanaland.com
> <mailto:ml at gondwanaland.com>> wrote:
>
>     I agree with Aaron's analysis, but catching up on reading this
>     thread, I'm convinced the clause in OD 2.0 needs tightening up (and
>     reverting to what 1.1 said isn't adequate either).
>
>     OD 2.0 says:
>     "The work must be provided in a convenient and modifiable form such
>     that there are no unnecessary technological obstacles to the
>     performance of the licensed rights. Specifically, data should be
>     machine-readable, available in bulk, and provided in an open format
>     (i.e., a format with a freely available published specification
>     which places no restrictions, monetary or otherwise, upon its use)
>     or, at the very least, can be processed with at least one
>     free/libre/open-source software tool."
>
>     * Is the word "Specifically" helping?
>     * Data should or must be...?
>     * Does published specification matter? Does an ad-hoc format that is
>     not restricted by any means make a work non-open? Consider CSV
>     variations.
>     * Should "or, at the very least" be "and"?
>     * What does "processed" mean? Possibly something stronger needed.
>     For a long time (probably could argue still, though not my
>     experience) OO.o (now LO) could "process" OOXML files but not well.
>
>     Should the clause effectively require that no rents must be paid by
>     anyone, to anyone (patent holder or software vendor) for any use in
>     order for the work to be open, that is comport with " anyone can
>     freely access, use, modify, and share for any purpose (subject, at
>     most, to requirements that preserve provenance and openness)"?
>
>     Mike
>
>
>     On 11/07/2014 10:05 AM, Aaron Wolf wrote:
> >     One quick note, ODv1.1 said
> >
> >     "The work must be provided in such a form that there are no
> >     technological obstacles to the performance of the above
> >     activities. This can be achieved by the provision of the work in
> >     an open data format, i.e. one whose specification is publicly and
> >     freely available and which places no restrictions monetary or
> >     otherwise upon its use."
> >
> >     Which does not specify that open formats are required. It merely
> >     says that the format must not impede the freedoms and that an open
> >     format is a suggested way to do this. The "can be achieved" line
> >     is open to interpretation. The ODv2 makes things more explicit but
> >     does not actually completely change the meaning. It's true that
> >     "can be processed" in ODv2 is open to interpretation, and a strong
> >     interpretation would be that such processing must have no
> >     degradation or issues whereas a weaker interpretation would be
> >     problematic.
> >
> >     FWIW, here's the blame on Herb for the new clause:
> >     https://github.com/okfn/opendefinition/commit/e1c19b075a57d36a6331416e8afce2f34c0a69e3
> >
> >     Again, I'm open to being convinced that the best advocacy is
> >     served by insisting on open formats, I just want an honest debate
> >     that doesn't blow this out of proportion.
> >
> >     Those of you suggesting that this was a complete shift are not
> >     recognizing the lack of strength and clarity from ODv1.1 on this
> >     issue.
> >
> >     Respectfully,
> >     Aaron
> >
> >     --
> >     Aaron Wolf
> >     wolftune.com <http://wolftune.com/>
> >
> >     On Fri, Nov 7, 2014 at 9:42 AM, Aaron Wolf <wolftune at gmail.com
> >     <mailto:wolftune at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >
> >         I'm not certain that that clause accepting data in non-open
> >         formats is *good*. I think this is a matter of practical
> >         concern and political strategy. I do not want to defend the
> >         use of Excel.
> >
> >         I could be persuaded that the right political strategy is to
> >         retain the strict definition that only open formats are
> >         acceptable.
> >
> >         However, "the Open Definition just becomes trash for any
> >         advocacy work to us now...." is complete hyberbole. You might
> >         as well say, "the only advocacy work we ever do or care about
> >         is regarding file formats."
> >
> >         If you want to have a useful discussion about this, you'll
> >         need to accept the facts about the scope of this issue and not
> >         be completely irrational about it.
> >
> >         Respectfully,
> >         Aaron
> >
> >         --
> >         Aaron Wolf
> >         wolftune.com <http://wolftune.com/>
> >
> >         On Fri, Nov 7, 2014 at 9:34 AM, Benjamin Ooghe-Tabanou
> >         <b.ooghe at gmail.com <mailto:b.ooghe at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >
> >             Hey Aaron,
> >
> >             Just a brief reaction before taking more time to answer in
> >             the coming
> >             days: the thing is this is a total game changer. Until
> >             now, according
> >             to both OD v1 and the 8/10 principles, you could only say
> >             something
> >             was OpenData if and only if it was under an open format.
> >             So this is a
> >             complzete step back. Reread my first e-mail and the title
> >             : I totally
> >             understood this doesn't say Excel is an open format, but
> >             it says
> >             opendata can be under excel which so many of us have been
> >             exxplaining
> >             the contray to officials, governments and so on. Clearly
> >             saying now
> >             that OpenDefinition does not require open formats is just what
> >             Microsoft has been advocating for in the past 2 years....
> >
> >             And the reason is simple: being able to open a file in
> >             LibreOffice
> >             doesn't make it reusable, most of the time data under
> >             excel is filled
> >             with presentation issues making the treatment impossible.
> >
> >             As expressed before, in the current situation, the Open
> >             Definition
> >             just becomes trash for any advocacy work to us now....
> >
> >             Benjamin Ooghe-Tabanou
> >
> >
> >             On Fri, Nov 7, 2014 at 6:28 PM, Aaron Wolf
> >             <wolftune at gmail.com <mailto:wolftune at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >             > Pierre,
> >             >
> >             > You can still say that Excel format is not an open
> >             format and is not ideal.
> >             > And you can say that the Excel software itself is not
> >             Free/Libre/Open. All
> >             > these things are unchanged.
> >             >
> >             > The only thing you cannot say under ODv2 is "this is not
> >             open data because
> >             > you're publishing it in a closed format". And you know
> >             what? If the data is
> >             > actually totally usable in LibreOffice, then we're
> >             pretty much ok in terms
> >             > of access and freedoms with the data.
> >             >
> >             > "an open format (i.e., a format with a freely available
> >             published
> >             > specification which places no restrictions, monetary or
> >             otherwise, upon its
> >             > use) or, at the very least, can be processed with at
> >             least one
> >             > free/libre/open-source software tool."
> >             >
> >             > Says very clearly that the latter clause is only "at the
> >             very least" and is
> >             > not an "open format". So it does *not* say that Excel is
> >             fine and
> >             > comparable. It just says that being in Excel format is
> >             not a sufficient
> >             > problem to break the Open definition.
> >             >
> >             > I said this earlier: insisting otherwise would be like
> >             saying that something
> >             > isn't free software just because it runs on a
> >             proprietary OS. Sorry, but
> >             > LibreOffice on Windows is still free software and open
> >             data in Excel format
> >             > openable with LibreOffice is still open data. Windows is
> >             still awful and
> >             > proprietary and so is Excel format.
> >             >
> >             > --
> >             > Aaron Wolf
> >             > wolftune.com <http://wolftune.com>
> >             >
> >             > On Fri, Nov 7, 2014 at 7:48 AM, Pierre Chrzanowski
> >             > <pierre.chrzanowski at gmail.com
> >             <mailto:pierre.chrzanowski at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >             >>
> >             >> Hi,
> >             >>
> >             >> A problem I see with this added rule is that it opens
> >             the Open Definition
> >             >> to interpretation on format, making it less clear, as
> >             exemplified by this
> >             >> discussion, and at the end, less powerful in regard to
> >             its objective and
> >             >> usefulness.
> >             >>
> >             >> Before, I could use the Open Definition as, let's say
> >             an authority
> >             >> argument, alongside my explanation on why it is
> >             important to use open format
> >             >> - and it is ! - or use it to support people criticizing
> >             the use of excel
> >             >> format - on data.gov.uk <http://data.gov.uk> for
> >             instance [1].
> >             >>
> >             >> But now I can't.
> >             >> This is a major regression to me.
> >             >>
> >             >>
> >             >>
> >             >> [1]
> >             >>
> >             http://www.computerweekly.com/blogs/public-sector/2014/09/microsoft-gets-flack-over-rubb-8.html
> >             >>
> >             >>
> >             >>
> >             >>
> >             >> On Fri Oct 31 2014 at 8:35:44 PM Aaron Wolf
> >             <wolftune at gmail.com <mailto:wolftune at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >             >>>
> >             >>> Indeed, to summarize my points as clearly as possible:
> >             >>>
> >             >>> OD v2 does NOT *endorse* Excel format. Period.
> >             >>>
> >             >>> OD v2 *does* say that Excel format *if* shown to be
> >             *perfectly* usable in
> >             >>> LibreOffice is not so objectionable that the whole
> >             data set is no longer
> >             >>> considered to be "Open".
> >             >>>
> >             >>> There is *nothing* about OD v2 that says that the
> >             Excel format is Open.
> >             >>> We do NOT consider Excel to be an Open format! We
> >             remain *perfectly* free to
> >             >>> criticize people for using this clearly non-Open format.
> >             >>>
> >             >>> I disagree with those suggesting that *data* which
> >             meets all the OD v2
> >             >>> details and is *fully* usable in LibreOffice is
> >             somehow not Open data just
> >             >>> because it is published in a non-Open format.
> >             >>>
> >             >>> That suggestion is comparable to saying that some
> >             software is not
> >             >>> Free/Libre/Open software because it runs on Microsoft
> >             Windows. Nothing about
> >             >>> acknowledging the FLO nature of some Windows software
> >             implies that Windows
> >             >>> is FLO. Nothing about that acknowledgement implies
> >             that we endorse software
> >             >>> being Windows-only. There remains no good reason (and
> >             a lot of reasons
> >             >>> against) denying FLO status to otherwise FLO software
> >             that runs on Windows.
> >             >>>
> >             >>> State one more time: ODv2 does NOT say that Excel is
> >             an Open format. It
> >             >>> says only that *data* being in Excel format is not
> >             sufficient for the *data*
> >             >>> to lose status as being Open Data.
> >             >>>
> >             >>> I personally agree completely that we *want* all
> >             software to run on
> >             >>> GNU/Linux (in fact, I would like all Windows software
> >             to die), and that we
> >             >>> want all data in Open formats. But if your software
> >             runs on Windows or your
> >             >>> data is in Excel, I still *prefer* that the software
> >             be FLO and the data be
> >             >>> Open, and that is feasible.
> >             >>>
> >             >>> I think the critiques against ODv2 in this case are
> >             based on the
> >             >>> *erroneous* inference that ODv2 is saying that
> >             anything openable in
> >             >>> LibreOffice is itself an Open format. It does not say
> >             that. It just says
> >             >>> that being in a proprietary format that is readily
> >             freeable doesn't itself
> >             >>> make the *data* non-Open.
> >             >>>
> >             >>> Respectfully,
> >             >>> Aaron
> >             >>>
> >             >>> P.S. Maybe someone can take what turned out to be
> >             not-so-concise and
> >             >>> highlight just the key bits of what I wrote above…
> >             sorry… :P
> >             >>>
> >             >>> --
> >             >>> Aaron Wolf
> >             >>> wolftune.com <http://wolftune.com>
> >             >>>
> >             >>> On Fri, Oct 31, 2014 at 8:11 AM, Rufus Pollock
> >             <rufus.pollock at okfn.org <mailto:rufus.pollock at okfn.org>>
> >             >>> wrote:
> >             >>>>
> >             >>>> On 31 October 2014 14:42, Brice Person
> >             <brice at ideeslibres.org <mailto:brice at ideeslibres.org>> wrote:
> >             >>>>>
> >             >>>>> Hi all,
> >             >>>>>
> >             >>>>> I think a lot of Open Data activists around the
> >             world have been basing
> >             >>>>> their advocacy onto these *very* important rules
> >             from the V1 (my case).
> >             >>>>
> >             >>>>
> >             >>>> I'd be interested to hear more here. Has a major
> >             piece of advocacy
> >             >>>> around open data with specific governments been excel
> >             vs csv (or is it about
> >             >>>> csv vs pdf)?
> >             >>>>
> >             >>>> To be clear, I'm strongly in favour of open formats
> >             but as Aaron and
> >             >>>> others have explained there is also a question of
> >             what we want the
> >             >>>> definition and conception of open to be, in
> >             particular if our aim is to
> >             >>>> ensure that everyone has freedom to use, reuse and
> >             redistribute, that seems
> >             >>>> reasonably well provided for.
> >             >>>>
> >             >>>>>
> >             >>>>> Besides, maybe some of them did not notice this
> >             important issue while
> >             >>>>> only being discussed on this list. Would it be
> >             possible to consult more
> >             >>>>> widely the opinion of the community on this ?
> >             >>>>
> >             >>>>
> >             >>>> Understood and we are discussing now :-)
> >             >>>>
> >             >>>> Rufus
> >             >>>>
> >             >>>>>
> >             >>>>> If I could vote, I would agree to replace the "or"
> >             by an "and".
> >             >>>>
> >             >>>>
> >             >>>>
> >             >>>>>
> >             >>>>> Best regards,
> >             >>>>>
> >             >>>>> Brice Person
> >             >>>>>
> >             >>>>> Le 27/10/2014 21:56, Tangui Morlier a écrit :
> >             >>>>>
> >             >>>>>> The "Or" proposition is indeed really problematic.
> >             Considering this
> >             >>>>>> part, as DRMs are accessible via reverse
> >             engineering through some
> >             >>>>>> free/libre softwares, they are considered ok with
> >             the Open
> >             >>>>>> Definition...
> >             >>>>>>
> >             >>>>>> Just relying on the courageous developers who took
> >             strong legal risks
> >             >>>>>> to
> >             >>>>>> make those closed formats accessible within some
> >             free softwares should
> >             >>>>>> not be a sufficient argument to consider anything
> >             open : as a
> >             >>>>>> reminder,
> >             >>>>>> Microsoft sued developpers to have released the
> >             pieces of code to read
> >             >>>>>> Excel files
> >             >>>>>>
> >             >>>>>>
> >             (<http://www.computerworld.com/article/2545166/open-source-tools/microsoft--desperate---says-patent-complaint-target-openoffice-org.html>)
> >             >>>>>> or access Samba shared resources
> >             >>>>>>
> >             >>>>>>
> >             (<http://www.zdnet.com/microsofts-antitrust-offering-blocks-samba-3039202482/>).
> >             >>>>>> And it's not the only proprietary software company
> >             to do so.
> >             >>>>>>
> >             >>>>>> As nearly every proprietary format has been
> >             reversed engineered by the
> >             >>>>>> free software communities, keeping this clause has
> >             the consequence of
> >             >>>>>> including anything, whatever the format, as
> >             compatible with the open
> >             >>>>>> definition (when it respects the other conditions
> >             of the OD course).
> >             >>>>>> This consequences sound totally crazy to us all.
> >             >>>>>>
> >             >>>>>> We strongly advocate to change this problematic
> >             sentence. An easy fix
> >             >>>>>> to
> >             >>>>>> solve the bug, if not removing the whole or and
> >             after part, could be
> >             >>>>>> to
> >             >>>>>> simply replace the "or" with an "and".
> >             >>>>>>
> >             >>>>>> Tangui for Regards Citoyens
> >             >>>>>>
> >             >>>>>> Le 07/10/2014 18:42, Rufus Pollock a écrit :
> >             >>>>>>>
> >             >>>>>>> On 7 October 2014 15:14, Benjamin Ooghe-Tabanou
> >             <b.ooghe at gmail.com <mailto:b.ooghe at gmail.com>
> >             >>>>>>> <mailto:b.ooghe at gmail.com
> >             <mailto:b.ooghe at gmail.com>>> wrote:
> >             >>>>>>>
> >             >>>>>>>      Hello there,
> >             >>>>>>>
> >             >>>>>>>      I feel guilty for not having taken the time
> >             earlier to
> >             >>>>>>> participate in
> >             >>>>>>>      the drafting process but I was assuming the
> >             principles of the
> >             >>>>>>> old v1
> >             >>>>>>>      and the 10 principles would always keep in
> >             line. Although, I
> >             >>>>>>> believe
> >             >>>>>>>      it could have been nice before releasing
> >             anything to send the
> >             >>>>>>> final
> >             >>>>>>>      draft to the various okfn mailing-lists.
> >             >>>>>>>
> >             >>>>>>>      Although, just reading the first part of the
> >             v2, I'm really
> >             >>>>>>> alarmed by
> >             >>>>>>>      point 1.3 on the formats. The sentence ends
> >             with: open format OR
> >             >>>>>>> "at
> >             >>>>>>>      the very least, can be processed with at
> >             least one
> >             >>>>>>>      free/libre/open-source software tool"
> >             >>>>>>>
> >             >>>>>>>      So basically, since you can open it within
> >             LibreOffice, data in
> >             >>>>>>> excel
> >             >>>>>>>      formats will be considered as Open according
> >             to the
> >             >>>>>>> OpenDefinition v2!
> >             >>>>>>>
> >             >>>>>>>
> >             >>>>>>> Assuming that it is also: machine-readable, bulk
> >             and openly licensed,
> >             >>>>>>> then yes I think that is the current reading.
> >             >>>>>>>
> >             >>>>>>>
> >             >>>>>>>      This is a real step backwards which sounds
> >             really in total
> >             >>>>>>>      disagreement with everything that we all
> >             stand for and have been
> >             >>>>>>>      fighting for in the past few years, whether
> >             during the re-PSI
> >             >>>>>>> debates
> >             >>>>>>>      at the EU Parliament or in our respective
> >             countries.
> >             >>>>>>>
> >             >>>>>>>
> >             >>>>>>> First off, let me say that I'm, personally, a very
> >             strong supporter
> >             >>>>>>> of
> >             >>>>>>> open formats.
> >             >>>>>>>
> >             >>>>>>> The question here is:
> >             >>>>>>>
> >             >>>>>>> - What should the Open Definition be setting as
> >             the standard - e.g.
> >             >>>>>>> if
> >             >>>>>>> people can access data with free/open/libre tools
> >             and the data is
> >             >>>>>>> machine-readable, bulk and openly licensed is that
> >             enough (for
> >             >>>>>>> example,
> >             >>>>>>> that would mean that anyone could immediately turn
> >             that data in a
> >             >>>>>>> proprietary form into an open form)
> >             >>>>>>> - Is the push for open (document) standards
> >             related to but separate
> >             >>>>>>> from
> >             >>>>>>> the open definition?
> >             >>>>>>> - Is the definition of the open format really that
> >             clear (and does it
> >             >>>>>>> really get enforced - e.g. there's a lot of
> >             "excel" open data out
> >             >>>>>>> there
> >             >>>>>>> from gov). Will it require us to provide a list of
> >             approved open
> >             >>>>>>> formats? (If so can we do that?)
> >             >>>>>>>
> >             >>>>>>> I should say my inclination now that this is
> >             highlighted - and I
> >             >>>>>>> confess
> >             >>>>>>> I somewhat passed over this during review - is
> >             that we should remove
> >             >>>>>>> the
> >             >>>>>>> "or" option but I'm trying to highlight reasons to
> >             think carefully.
> >             >>>>>>>
> >             >>>>>>>
> >             >>>>>>>      In such condition, I personnally (and I guess
> >             Regards Citoyens
> >             >>>>>>> as
> >             >>>>>>>      well) won't be able to use the OD as a
> >             reference anymore or only
> >             >>>>>>> the
> >             >>>>>>>      v1, and probably get back to the good old 10
> >             principles.
> >             >>>>>>>
> >             >>>>>>>      I must say I really do not understand how
> >             such a piece of
> >             >>>>>>> sentence
> >             >>>>>>>      could have appear there, it really looks a
> >             lot alike Microsoft's
> >             >>>>>>>      amendments when the EU Parliament was
> >             defining machine readable
> >             >>>>>>> and
> >             >>>>>>>      reusable. I can only imagine this was a way
> >             to include all those
> >             >>>>>>>      official datasets published on national
> >             catalogs in Excel, but
> >             >>>>>>> if such
> >             >>>>>>>      I believe we really do not want these to be
> >             considered as
> >             >>>>>>> OpenData.
> >             >>>>>>>
> >             >>>>>>>
> >             >>>>>>> That's good to make clear.
> >             >>>>>>>
> >             >>>>>>>
> >             >>>>>>>      They are to the contrary our best advocacy
> >             examples to point to
> >             >>>>>>>      governments and make them understand why they
> >             have to switch
> >             >>>>>>> from
> >             >>>>>>>      formatted spreadsheet to actual data as csv.
> >             Including them in
> >             >>>>>>> the
> >             >>>>>>>      standards won't help anyone!
> >             >>>>>>>
> >             >>>>>>>
> >             >>>>>>> I think the point had been to try to capture the
> >             spirit was that
> >             >>>>>>> people
> >             >>>>>>> should have freedom to access and the existence of
> >             a free/libre/open
> >             >>>>>>> tool should allow that.
> >             >>>>>>>
> >             >>>>>>>
> >             >>>>>>>      I can only hope this can still be changed and
> >             will be towards a
> >             >>>>>>>      v2.0.1. Hope I'm not the only one!
> >             >>>>>>>
> >             >>>>>>>
> >             >>>>>>> Thanks for raising this important point and let's
> >             discuss this and
> >             >>>>>>> revise if appropriate and agreed :-)
> >             >>>>>>>
> >             >>>>>>> Rufus
> >             >>>>>>>
> >             >>>>>>>
> >             >>>>>>>      Benjamin
> >             >>>>>>>
> >             >>>>>>>
> >             >>>>>>>      On Tue, Oct 7, 2014 at 1:40 PM, Rufus Pollock
> >             >>>>>>>      <rufus.pollock at okfn.org
> >             <mailto:rufus.pollock at okfn.org>
> >             <mailto:rufus.pollock at okfn.org
> >             <mailto:rufus.pollock at okfn.org>>> wrote:
> >             >>>>>>>      > Hi All,
> >             >>>>>>>      >
> >             >>>>>>>      > The v2.0 announce has gone live as planned.
> >             Announce text is
> >             >>>>>>> below
> >             >>>>>>>      if people
> >             >>>>>>>      > want to forward and can also be found in
> >             "source" form near
> >             >>>>>>> the
> >             >>>>>>>      top of the
> >             >>>>>>>      > announce doc.
> >             >>>>>>>      >
> >             >>>>>>>      > In terms of online post, we have:
> >             >>>>>>>      >
> >             >>>>>>>      > [Herb/Rufus/Susanne] PR + Open Knowledge Blog
> >             >>>>>>>      >
> >             >>>>>>>      > [Tim] Creative Commons Blog
> >             >>>>>>>      >
> >             >>>>>>>      > [Herb] Government of Canada Blog
> >             >>>>>>>      >
> >             >>>>>>>      > [Andrew] World Bank Blog
> >             >>>>>>>      >
> >             >>>>>>>      >
> >             >>>>>>>      > Let me know when you've posted and we can
> >             tweet etc.
> >             >>>>>>>      >
> >             >>>>>>>      > In terms of mailing lists we have a list at
> >             the top of the
> >             >>>>>>>      announce doc. I'm
> >             >>>>>>>      > crossing off the ones I've done so far.
> >             >>>>>>>      >
> >             >>>>>>>      > Huge well done to everyone and bigs thanks,
> >             especially to Mike
> >             >>>>>>> and
> >             >>>>>>>      Herb who
> >             >>>>>>>      > have been the Chairs during this process
> >             and who have done an
> >             >>>>>>>      immense amount
> >             >>>>>>>      > to get us to this point.
> >             >>>>>>>      >
> >             >>>>>>>      > Regards,
> >             >>>>>>>      >
> >             >>>>>>>      > Rufus
> >             >>>>>>>      >
> >             >>>>>>>      >
> >             >>>>>>>      > Online at:
> >             >>>>>>>      >
> >             >>>>>>>
> >             >>>>>>>
> >             http://blog.okfn.org/2014/10/07/open-definition-v2-0-released-major-update-of-essential-standard-for-open-data-and-open-content/
> >             >>>>>>>      >
> >             >>>>>>>      >
> >             >>>>>>>      > ANN: Open Definition v2.0 Released - Major
> >             Update of Essential
> >             >>>>>>>      Standard for
> >             >>>>>>>      > Open Data and Open Content
> >             >>>>>>>      >
> >             >>>>>>>      >
> >             >>>>>>>      > Today Open Knowledge and the Open
> >             Definition Advisory Council
> >             >>>>>>> are
> >             >>>>>>>      pleased to
> >             >>>>>>>      > announce the release of version 2.0 of the
> >             Open Definition.
> >             >>>>>>> The
> >             >>>>>>>      Definition
> >             >>>>>>>      > “sets out principles that define openness
> >             in relation to data
> >             >>>>>>> and
> >             >>>>>>>      content”
> >             >>>>>>>      > and plays a key role in supporting the
> >             growing open data
> >             >>>>>>> ecosystem.
> >             >>>>>>>      >
> >             >>>>>>>      >
> >             >>>>>>>      > Recent years have seen an explosion in the
> >             release of open
> >             >>>>>>> data by
> >             >>>>>>>      dozens of
> >             >>>>>>>      > governments including the G8. Recent
> >             estimates by McKinsey put
> >             >>>>>>> the
> >             >>>>>>>      potential
> >             >>>>>>>      > benefits of open data at over $1 trillion
> >             and others estimates
> >             >>>>>>> put
> >             >>>>>>>      benefits
> >             >>>>>>>      > at more than 1% of global GDP.
> >             >>>>>>>      >
> >             >>>>>>>      >
> >             >>>>>>>      > However, these benefits are at significant
> >             risk both from
> >             >>>>>>> quality
> >             >>>>>>>      problems
> >             >>>>>>>      > such as “open-washing” (non-open data being
> >             passed off as
> >             >>>>>>> open)
> >             >>>>>>>      and from
> >             >>>>>>>      > fragmentation of the open data ecosystem due to
> >             >>>>>>> incompatibility
> >             >>>>>>>      between the
> >             >>>>>>>      > growing number of “open” licenses.
> >             >>>>>>>      >
> >             >>>>>>>      >
> >             >>>>>>>      > The Open Definition eliminates these risks
> >             and ensures we
> >             >>>>>>> realize
> >             >>>>>>>      the full
> >             >>>>>>>      > benefits of open by  guaranteeing quality
> >             and preventing
> >             >>>>>>>      incompatibility.
> >             >>>>>>>      > See this recent post for more about why the
> >             Open Definition is
> >             >>>>>>> so
> >             >>>>>>>      important.
> >             >>>>>>>      >
> >             >>>>>>>      >
> >             >>>>>>>      > Created in 2005, this new version of the
> >             Open Definition is
> >             >>>>>>> the most
> >             >>>>>>>      > significant revision in the Definition’s
> >             nearly ten-year
> >             >>>>>>> history and
> >             >>>>>>>      > reflects more than a year of discussion and
> >             consultation with
> >             >>>>>>> the
> >             >>>>>>>      community
> >             >>>>>>>      > including input from experts involved in
> >             open data, open
> >             >>>>>>> access, open
> >             >>>>>>>      > culture, open education, open government,
> >             and open source.  As
> >             >>>>>>>      well as major
> >             >>>>>>>      > revisions to the text there is a new
> >             process for reviewing
> >             >>>>>>>      licenses which
> >             >>>>>>>      > has been trialled with major governments
> >             including the UK.
> >             >>>>>>>      >
> >             >>>>>>>      >
> >             >>>>>>>      > The Open Definition was published in 2005
> >             by Open Knowledge
> >             >>>>>>> and is
> >             >>>>>>>      > maintained today by an expert Advisory
> >             Council. This new
> >             >>>>>>> version
> >             >>>>>>>      of the Open
> >             >>>>>>>      > Definition is the most significant revision
> >             in the
> >             >>>>>>> Definition’s nearly
> >             >>>>>>>      > ten-year history.
> >             >>>>>>>      >
> >             >>>>>>>      >
> >             >>>>>>>      > It reflects more than a year of discussion
> >             and consultation
> >             >>>>>>> with the
> >             >>>>>>>      > community including input from experts
> >             involved in open data,
> >             >>>>>>> open
> >             >>>>>>>      access,
> >             >>>>>>>      > open culture, open education, open
> >             government, and open
> >             >>>>>>> source.
> >             >>>>>>>      Whilst there
> >             >>>>>>>      > are no changes to the core principles, the
> >             Definition has been
> >             >>>>>>>      completely
> >             >>>>>>>      > reworked with a new structure and revised
> >             text as well as a
> >             >>>>>>> new
> >             >>>>>>>      process for
> >             >>>>>>>      > reviewing licenses (which has been trialled
> >             with governments
> >             >>>>>>>      including the
> >             >>>>>>>      > UK).
> >             >>>>>>>      >
> >             >>>>>>>      >
> >             >>>>>>>      > Herb Lainchbury, Chair of the Open
> >             Definition Advisory
> >             >>>>>>> Council, said:
> >             >>>>>>>      >
> >             >>>>>>>      >
> >             >>>>>>>      > ‘The Open Definition describes the
> >             principles that define
> >             >>>>>>>      “openness” in
> >             >>>>>>>      > relation to data and content, and is used
> >             to assess whether a
> >             >>>>>>>      particular
> >             >>>>>>>      > licence meets that standard.  A key goal of
> >             this new version
> >             >>>>>>> is to
> >             >>>>>>>      make it
> >             >>>>>>>      > easier to assess whether the growing number
> >             of open licenses
> >             >>>>>>>      actually make
> >             >>>>>>>      > the grade. The more we can increase
> >             everyone’s confidence in
> >             >>>>>>> their
> >             >>>>>>>      use of
> >             >>>>>>>      > open works,  the more they will be able to
> >             focus on creating
> >             >>>>>>> value
> >             >>>>>>>      with open
> >             >>>>>>>      > works.’
> >             >>>>>>>      >
> >             >>>>>>>      >
> >             >>>>>>>      > Rufus Pollock, President and Founder of
> >             Open Knowledge said:
> >             >>>>>>>      >
> >             >>>>>>>      >
> >             >>>>>>>      > ‘Since we created the Open Definition in
> >             2005 it has played a
> >             >>>>>>> key
> >             >>>>>>>      role in
> >             >>>>>>>      > the growing open data and open content
> >             communities. It acts as
> >             >>>>>>> the
> >             >>>>>>>      ‘gold
> >             >>>>>>>      > standard’ for open data and content
> >             guaranteeing quality and
> >             >>>>>>>      preventing
> >             >>>>>>>      > incompatibility. As a standard, the Open
> >             Definition plays a
> >             >>>>>>> key
> >             >>>>>>>      role in
> >             >>>>>>>      > underpinning the ‘open knowledge economy’
> >             with a potential
> >             >>>>>>> value
> >             >>>>>>>      that runs
> >             >>>>>>>      > into the hundreds of billions - or even
> >             trillions -
> >             >>>>>>> worldwide.’
> >             >>>>>>>      >
> >             >>>>>>>      >
> >             >>>>>>>      > What’s New
> >             >>>>>>>      >
> >             >>>>>>>      > In process for more than a year, the new
> >             version was
> >             >>>>>>>      collaboratively and
> >             >>>>>>>      > openly developed with input from experts
> >             involved in open
> >             >>>>>>> access, open
> >             >>>>>>>      > culture, open data, open education, open
> >             government, open
> >             >>>>>>> source
> >             >>>>>>>      and wiki
> >             >>>>>>>      > communities. The new version of the definition:
> >             >>>>>>>      >
> >             >>>>>>>      >
> >             >>>>>>>      > Has a complete rewrite of the core
> >             principles - preserving
> >             >>>>>>> their
> >             >>>>>>>      meaning but
> >             >>>>>>>      > using simpler language and clarifying key
> >             aspects.
> >             >>>>>>>      >
> >             >>>>>>>      > Introduces a clear separation of the
> >             definition of an open
> >             >>>>>>> license
> >             >>>>>>>      from an
> >             >>>>>>>      > open work (with the latter depending on the
> >             former). This not
> >             >>>>>>> only
> >             >>>>>>>      > simplifies the conceptual structure but
> >             provides a proper
> >             >>>>>>>      definition of open
> >             >>>>>>>      > license and makes it easier to
> >             “self-assess” licenses for
> >             >>>>>>>      conformance with
> >             >>>>>>>      > the Open Definition.
> >             >>>>>>>      >
> >             >>>>>>>      > The definition of an Open Work within the
> >             Open Definition is
> >             >>>>>>> now a
> >             >>>>>>>      set of
> >             >>>>>>>      > three key principles:
> >             >>>>>>>      >
> >             >>>>>>>      > Open License: The work must be available
> >             under an open license
> >             >>>>>>> (as
> >             >>>>>>>      defined
> >             >>>>>>>      > in the following section but this includes
> >             freedom to use,
> >             >>>>>>> build
> >             >>>>>>>      on, modify
> >             >>>>>>>      > and share).
> >             >>>>>>>      >
> >             >>>>>>>      > Access: The work shall be available as a
> >             whole and at no more
> >             >>>>>>> than a
> >             >>>>>>>      > reasonable one-time reproduction cost,
> >             preferably downloadable
> >             >>>>>>> via the
> >             >>>>>>>      > Internet without charge
> >             >>>>>>>      >
> >             >>>>>>>      > Open Format: The work must be provided in a
> >             convenient and
> >             >>>>>>>      modifiable form
> >             >>>>>>>      > such that there are no unnecessary
> >             technological obstacles to
> >             >>>>>>> the
> >             >>>>>>>      > performance of the licensed rights.
> >             Specifically, data should
> >             >>>>>>> be
> >             >>>>>>>      > machine-readable, available in bulk, and
> >             provided in an open
> >             >>>>>>>      format or, at
> >             >>>>>>>      > the very least, can be processed with at
> >             least one
> >             >>>>>>>      free/libre/open-source
> >             >>>>>>>      > software tool.
> >             >>>>>>>      >
> >             >>>>>>>      > Includes improved license approval process
> >             to make it easier
> >             >>>>>>> for
> >             >>>>>>>      license
> >             >>>>>>>      > creators to check conformance of their
> >             license with the Open
> >             >>>>>>>      Definition and
> >             >>>>>>>      > to encourage reuse of existing open
> >             licenses (rrareuse and
> >             >>>>>>>      outlines the
> >             >>>>>>>      > process for submitting a license so that it
> >             can be checked for
> >             >>>>>>>      conformance
> >             >>>>>>>      > against the Open Definition.
> >             >>>>>>>      >
> >             >>>>>>>      >
> >             >>>>>>>      > More Information
> >             >>>>>>>      >
> >             >>>>>>>      > For more information about the Open
> >             Definition including the
> >             >>>>>>>      updated version
> >             >>>>>>>      > visit: http://opendefinition.org/
> >             >>>>>>>      >
> >             >>>>>>>      > For background on why the Open Definition
> >             matters, read the
> >             >>>>>>>      recent  article
> >             >>>>>>>      > ‘Why the Open Definition Matters’
> >             >>>>>>>      >
> >             >>>>>>>      >
> >             >>>>>>>      > _______________________________________________
> >             >>>>>>>      > od-discuss mailing list
> >             >>>>>>>      > od-discuss at lists.okfn.org
> >             <mailto:od-discuss at lists.okfn.org>
> >             <mailto:od-discuss at lists.okfn.org
> >             <mailto:od-discuss at lists.okfn.org>>
> >             >>>>>>>      >
> >             https://lists.okfn.org/mailman/listinfo/od-discuss
> >             >>>>>>>      > Unsubscribe:
> >             https://lists.okfn.org/mailman/options/od-discuss
> >             >>>>>>>      >
> >             >>>>>>>      _______________________________________________
> >             >>>>>>>      od-discuss mailing list
> >             >>>>>>>      od-discuss at lists.okfn.org
> >             <mailto:od-discuss at lists.okfn.org>
> >             <mailto:od-discuss at lists.okfn.org
> >             <mailto:od-discuss at lists.okfn.org>>
> >             >>>>>>>     
> >             https://lists.okfn.org/mailman/listinfo/od-discuss
> >             >>>>>>>      Unsubscribe:
> >             https://lists.okfn.org/mailman/options/od-discuss
> >             >>>>>>>
> >             >>>>>>>
> >             >>>>>>>
> >             >>>>>>>
> >             >>>>>>> --
> >             >>>>>>> *
> >             >>>>>>>
> >             >>>>>>> **
> >             >>>>>>>
> >             >>>>>>> ****
> >             >>>>>>>
> >             >>>>>>> **Rufus Pollock**
> >             >>>>>>>
> >             >>>>>>> **Founder and President | skype: rufuspollock |
> >             @rufuspollock
> >             >>>>>>> <https://twitter.com/rufuspollock>**
> >             >>>>>>>
> >             >>>>>>> **Open Knowledge <http://okfn.org/>- s**ee how
> >             data can change the
> >             >>>>>>> world
> >             >>>>>>>
> >             >>>>>>> ****http://okfn.org/| <http://okfn.org/%7C> @okfn
> >             <http://twitter.com/OKFN>| Open Knowledge
> >             >>>>>>> on
> >             >>>>>>> Facebook <https://www.facebook.com/OKFNetwork>|  Blog
> >             >>>>>>> <http://blog.okfn.org/>***
> >             >>>>>>> _
> >             >>>>>>> _
> >             >>>>>>>
> >             >>>>>>> The Open Knowledge Foundation is a not-for-profit
> >             organisation.  It
> >             >>>>>>> is
> >             >>>>>>> incorporated in England & Wales as a company
> >             limited by guarantee,
> >             >>>>>>> with
> >             >>>>>>> company number 05133759.  VAT Registration № GB
> >             984404989. Registered
> >             >>>>>>> office address: Open Knowledge Foundation, St
> >             John’s Innovation
> >             >>>>>>> Centre,
> >             >>>>>>> Cowley Road, Cambridge, CB4 0WS, UK.
> >             >>>>>>>
> >             >>>>>>
> >             >>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >             >>>>>> od-discuss mailing list
> >             >>>>>> od-discuss at lists.okfn.org
> >             <mailto:od-discuss at lists.okfn.org>
> >             >>>>>> https://lists.okfn.org/mailman/listinfo/od-discuss
> >             >>>>>> Unsubscribe:
> >             https://lists.okfn.org/mailman/options/od-discuss
> >             >>>>>>
> >             >>>>>
> >             >>>>> --
> >             >>>>> @bjperson
> >             >>>>> http://www.IdeesLibres.org
> >             >>>>
> >             >>>>
> >             >>>>
> >             >>>>
> >             >>>> --
> >             >>>>
> >             >>>> Rufus Pollock
> >             >>>>
> >             >>>> Founder and President | skype: rufuspollock |
> >             @rufuspollock
> >             >>>>
> >             >>>> Open Knowledge - see how data can change the world
> >             >>>>
> >             >>>> http://okfn.org/ | @okfn | Open Knowledge on Facebook
> >             |  Blog
> >             >>>>
> >             >>>> The Open Knowledge Foundation is a not-for-profit
> >             organisation.  It is
> >             >>>> incorporated in England & Wales as a company limited
> >             by guarantee, with
> >             >>>> company number 05133759.  VAT Registration № GB
> >             984404989. Registered office
> >             >>>> address: Open Knowledge Foundation, St John’s
> >             Innovation Centre, Cowley
> >             >>>> Road, Cambridge, CB4 0WS, UK.
> >             >>>>
> >             >>>>
> >             >>>> _______________________________________________
> >             >>>> od-discuss mailing list
> >             >>>> od-discuss at lists.okfn.org
> >             <mailto:od-discuss at lists.okfn.org>
> >             >>>> https://lists.okfn.org/mailman/listinfo/od-discuss
> >             >>>> Unsubscribe:
> >             https://lists.okfn.org/mailman/options/od-discuss
> >             >>>>
> >             >>>
> >             >>> _______________________________________________
> >             >>> od-discuss mailing list
> >             >>> od-discuss at lists.okfn.org
> >             <mailto:od-discuss at lists.okfn.org>
> >             >>> https://lists.okfn.org/mailman/listinfo/od-discuss
> >             >>> Unsubscribe:
> >             https://lists.okfn.org/mailman/options/od-discuss
> >             >
> >             >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >     _______________________________________________
> >     od-discuss mailing list
> >     od-discuss at lists.okfn.org <mailto:od-discuss at lists.okfn.org>
> >     https://lists.okfn.org/mailman/listinfo/od-discuss
> >     Unsubscribe: https://lists.okfn.org/mailman/options/od-discuss
>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     od-discuss mailing list
>     od-discuss at lists.okfn.org <mailto:od-discuss at lists.okfn.org>
>     https://lists.okfn.org/mailman/listinfo/od-discuss
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>
>
>
>
> -- 
>
> Herb Lainchbury, Dynamic Solutions
> 250.704.6154
> http://www.dynamic-solutions.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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