[od-discuss] OD v2 accepts Excel as OpenData?!???
Brice Person
brice at ideeslibres.org
Fri Oct 31 14:42:54 UTC 2014
Hi all,
I think a lot of Open Data activists around the world have been basing
their advocacy onto these *very* important rules from the V1 (my case).
Besides, maybe some of them did not notice this important issue while
only being discussed on this list. Would it be possible to consult more
widely the opinion of the community on this ?
If I could vote, I would agree to replace the "or" by an "and".
Best regards,
Brice Person
Le 27/10/2014 21:56, Tangui Morlier a écrit :
> The "Or" proposition is indeed really problematic. Considering this
> part, as DRMs are accessible via reverse engineering through some
> free/libre softwares, they are considered ok with the Open Definition...
>
> Just relying on the courageous developers who took strong legal risks to
> make those closed formats accessible within some free softwares should
> not be a sufficient argument to consider anything open : as a reminder,
> Microsoft sued developpers to have released the pieces of code to read
> Excel files
> (<http://www.computerworld.com/article/2545166/open-source-tools/microsoft--desperate---says-patent-complaint-target-openoffice-org.html>)
> or access Samba shared resources
> (<http://www.zdnet.com/microsofts-antitrust-offering-blocks-samba-3039202482/>).
> And it's not the only proprietary software company to do so.
>
> As nearly every proprietary format has been reversed engineered by the
> free software communities, keeping this clause has the consequence of
> including anything, whatever the format, as compatible with the open
> definition (when it respects the other conditions of the OD course).
> This consequences sound totally crazy to us all.
>
> We strongly advocate to change this problematic sentence. An easy fix to
> solve the bug, if not removing the whole or and after part, could be to
> simply replace the "or" with an "and".
>
> Tangui for Regards Citoyens
>
> Le 07/10/2014 18:42, Rufus Pollock a écrit :
>> On 7 October 2014 15:14, Benjamin Ooghe-Tabanou <b.ooghe at gmail.com
>> <mailto:b.ooghe at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Hello there,
>>
>> I feel guilty for not having taken the time earlier to participate in
>> the drafting process but I was assuming the principles of the old v1
>> and the 10 principles would always keep in line. Although, I believe
>> it could have been nice before releasing anything to send the final
>> draft to the various okfn mailing-lists.
>>
>> Although, just reading the first part of the v2, I'm really alarmed by
>> point 1.3 on the formats. The sentence ends with: open format OR "at
>> the very least, can be processed with at least one
>> free/libre/open-source software tool"
>>
>> So basically, since you can open it within LibreOffice, data in excel
>> formats will be considered as Open according to the OpenDefinition v2!
>>
>>
>> Assuming that it is also: machine-readable, bulk and openly licensed,
>> then yes I think that is the current reading.
>>
>>
>> This is a real step backwards which sounds really in total
>> disagreement with everything that we all stand for and have been
>> fighting for in the past few years, whether during the re-PSI debates
>> at the EU Parliament or in our respective countries.
>>
>>
>> First off, let me say that I'm, personally, a very strong supporter of
>> open formats.
>>
>> The question here is:
>>
>> - What should the Open Definition be setting as the standard - e.g. if
>> people can access data with free/open/libre tools and the data is
>> machine-readable, bulk and openly licensed is that enough (for example,
>> that would mean that anyone could immediately turn that data in a
>> proprietary form into an open form)
>> - Is the push for open (document) standards related to but separate from
>> the open definition?
>> - Is the definition of the open format really that clear (and does it
>> really get enforced - e.g. there's a lot of "excel" open data out there
>> from gov). Will it require us to provide a list of approved open
>> formats? (If so can we do that?)
>>
>> I should say my inclination now that this is highlighted - and I confess
>> I somewhat passed over this during review - is that we should remove the
>> "or" option but I'm trying to highlight reasons to think carefully.
>>
>>
>> In such condition, I personnally (and I guess Regards Citoyens as
>> well) won't be able to use the OD as a reference anymore or only the
>> v1, and probably get back to the good old 10 principles.
>>
>> I must say I really do not understand how such a piece of sentence
>> could have appear there, it really looks a lot alike Microsoft's
>> amendments when the EU Parliament was defining machine readable and
>> reusable. I can only imagine this was a way to include all those
>> official datasets published on national catalogs in Excel, but if such
>> I believe we really do not want these to be considered as OpenData.
>>
>>
>> That's good to make clear.
>>
>>
>> They are to the contrary our best advocacy examples to point to
>> governments and make them understand why they have to switch from
>> formatted spreadsheet to actual data as csv. Including them in the
>> standards won't help anyone!
>>
>>
>> I think the point had been to try to capture the spirit was that people
>> should have freedom to access and the existence of a free/libre/open
>> tool should allow that.
>>
>>
>> I can only hope this can still be changed and will be towards a
>> v2.0.1. Hope I'm not the only one!
>>
>>
>> Thanks for raising this important point and let's discuss this and
>> revise if appropriate and agreed :-)
>>
>> Rufus
>>
>>
>> Benjamin
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 7, 2014 at 1:40 PM, Rufus Pollock
>> <rufus.pollock at okfn.org <mailto:rufus.pollock at okfn.org>> wrote:
>> > Hi All,
>> >
>> > The v2.0 announce has gone live as planned. Announce text is below
>> if people
>> > want to forward and can also be found in "source" form near the
>> top of the
>> > announce doc.
>> >
>> > In terms of online post, we have:
>> >
>> > [Herb/Rufus/Susanne] PR + Open Knowledge Blog
>> >
>> > [Tim] Creative Commons Blog
>> >
>> > [Herb] Government of Canada Blog
>> >
>> > [Andrew] World Bank Blog
>> >
>> >
>> > Let me know when you've posted and we can tweet etc.
>> >
>> > In terms of mailing lists we have a list at the top of the
>> announce doc. I'm
>> > crossing off the ones I've done so far.
>> >
>> > Huge well done to everyone and bigs thanks, especially to Mike and
>> Herb who
>> > have been the Chairs during this process and who have done an
>> immense amount
>> > to get us to this point.
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> >
>> > Rufus
>> >
>> >
>> > Online at:
>> >
>> http://blog.okfn.org/2014/10/07/open-definition-v2-0-released-major-update-of-essential-standard-for-open-data-and-open-content/
>> >
>> >
>> > ANN: Open Definition v2.0 Released - Major Update of Essential
>> Standard for
>> > Open Data and Open Content
>> >
>> >
>> > Today Open Knowledge and the Open Definition Advisory Council are
>> pleased to
>> > announce the release of version 2.0 of the Open Definition. The
>> Definition
>> > “sets out principles that define openness in relation to data and
>> content”
>> > and plays a key role in supporting the growing open data ecosystem.
>> >
>> >
>> > Recent years have seen an explosion in the release of open data by
>> dozens of
>> > governments including the G8. Recent estimates by McKinsey put the
>> potential
>> > benefits of open data at over $1 trillion and others estimates put
>> benefits
>> > at more than 1% of global GDP.
>> >
>> >
>> > However, these benefits are at significant risk both from quality
>> problems
>> > such as “open-washing” (non-open data being passed off as open)
>> and from
>> > fragmentation of the open data ecosystem due to incompatibility
>> between the
>> > growing number of “open” licenses.
>> >
>> >
>> > The Open Definition eliminates these risks and ensures we realize
>> the full
>> > benefits of open by guaranteeing quality and preventing
>> incompatibility.
>> > See this recent post for more about why the Open Definition is so
>> important.
>> >
>> >
>> > Created in 2005, this new version of the Open Definition is the most
>> > significant revision in the Definition’s nearly ten-year history and
>> > reflects more than a year of discussion and consultation with the
>> community
>> > including input from experts involved in open data, open access, open
>> > culture, open education, open government, and open source. As
>> well as major
>> > revisions to the text there is a new process for reviewing
>> licenses which
>> > has been trialled with major governments including the UK.
>> >
>> >
>> > The Open Definition was published in 2005 by Open Knowledge and is
>> > maintained today by an expert Advisory Council. This new version
>> of the Open
>> > Definition is the most significant revision in the Definition’s nearly
>> > ten-year history.
>> >
>> >
>> > It reflects more than a year of discussion and consultation with the
>> > community including input from experts involved in open data, open
>> access,
>> > open culture, open education, open government, and open source.
>> Whilst there
>> > are no changes to the core principles, the Definition has been
>> completely
>> > reworked with a new structure and revised text as well as a new
>> process for
>> > reviewing licenses (which has been trialled with governments
>> including the
>> > UK).
>> >
>> >
>> > Herb Lainchbury, Chair of the Open Definition Advisory Council, said:
>> >
>> >
>> > ‘The Open Definition describes the principles that define
>> “openness” in
>> > relation to data and content, and is used to assess whether a
>> particular
>> > licence meets that standard. A key goal of this new version is to
>> make it
>> > easier to assess whether the growing number of open licenses
>> actually make
>> > the grade. The more we can increase everyone’s confidence in their
>> use of
>> > open works, the more they will be able to focus on creating value
>> with open
>> > works.’
>> >
>> >
>> > Rufus Pollock, President and Founder of Open Knowledge said:
>> >
>> >
>> > ‘Since we created the Open Definition in 2005 it has played a key
>> role in
>> > the growing open data and open content communities. It acts as the
>> ‘gold
>> > standard’ for open data and content guaranteeing quality and
>> preventing
>> > incompatibility. As a standard, the Open Definition plays a key
>> role in
>> > underpinning the ‘open knowledge economy’ with a potential value
>> that runs
>> > into the hundreds of billions - or even trillions - worldwide.’
>> >
>> >
>> > What’s New
>> >
>> > In process for more than a year, the new version was
>> collaboratively and
>> > openly developed with input from experts involved in open access, open
>> > culture, open data, open education, open government, open source
>> and wiki
>> > communities. The new version of the definition:
>> >
>> >
>> > Has a complete rewrite of the core principles - preserving their
>> meaning but
>> > using simpler language and clarifying key aspects.
>> >
>> > Introduces a clear separation of the definition of an open license
>> from an
>> > open work (with the latter depending on the former). This not only
>> > simplifies the conceptual structure but provides a proper
>> definition of open
>> > license and makes it easier to “self-assess” licenses for
>> conformance with
>> > the Open Definition.
>> >
>> > The definition of an Open Work within the Open Definition is now a
>> set of
>> > three key principles:
>> >
>> > Open License: The work must be available under an open license (as
>> defined
>> > in the following section but this includes freedom to use, build
>> on, modify
>> > and share).
>> >
>> > Access: The work shall be available as a whole and at no more than a
>> > reasonable one-time reproduction cost, preferably downloadable via the
>> > Internet without charge
>> >
>> > Open Format: The work must be provided in a convenient and
>> modifiable form
>> > such that there are no unnecessary technological obstacles to the
>> > performance of the licensed rights. Specifically, data should be
>> > machine-readable, available in bulk, and provided in an open
>> format or, at
>> > the very least, can be processed with at least one
>> free/libre/open-source
>> > software tool.
>> >
>> > Includes improved license approval process to make it easier for
>> license
>> > creators to check conformance of their license with the Open
>> Definition and
>> > to encourage reuse of existing open licenses (rrareuse and
>> outlines the
>> > process for submitting a license so that it can be checked for
>> conformance
>> > against the Open Definition.
>> >
>> >
>> > More Information
>> >
>> > For more information about the Open Definition including the
>> updated version
>> > visit: http://opendefinition.org/
>> >
>> > For background on why the Open Definition matters, read the
>> recent article
>> > ‘Why the Open Definition Matters’
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > od-discuss mailing list
>> > od-discuss at lists.okfn.org <mailto:od-discuss at lists.okfn.org>
>> > https://lists.okfn.org/mailman/listinfo/od-discuss
>> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.okfn.org/mailman/options/od-discuss
>> >
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>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> *
>>
>> **
>>
>> ****
>>
>> **Rufus Pollock**
>>
>> **Founder and President | skype: rufuspollock | @rufuspollock
>> <https://twitter.com/rufuspollock>**
>>
>> **Open Knowledge <http://okfn.org/>- s**ee how data can change the world
>>
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>>
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