[@OKFNau] speaking of values...

Tue Mar 24 22:24:24 UTC 2015

On the question of a list of Australian open data projects:
I started a wiki over Xmas meant to include Open Data projects owned by Australians athttp://infoaus.net/projects/index.php/Main_Page
I didn't know about the OKN github repo so that is definitely interesting.

This was set up for the purpose of having a single place where people could find and search Australian open data projects for purposes of reporting, participation or research. 
There are some projects I know of which are not on my wiki  but I've been doing other things so not chased them up. My own entries are already out of date but I need to see what happens before I update it.
The idea was to make project owners responsible for their own entry so it is basically up to people if they want to be included or not and edit their own project pages. I put it in a wiki so I didn't have to code an entirely new database project from scratch rather than because I expected people to write about other people's projects. My reasoning for this is because I think project owners are best placed to know what they need and take responsibility for asking for it or not as the case may be. 
I had major issues with spam when I began but registration now requires the answer to a question which can be found through a google search. Don't seem to have had any spam since then. 
On the question of meetups:
I'm happy to host meetups in Sydney. I've been looking at venues lately. I'd like to do topic related events so an afternoon on say health data for example and get people with different interests along. I'm not talking so much about large events but afternoons where the interest is very focused and people who know about open data can talk and work with people who know about specific topics like health or education for example.
If the OKN can provide snacks that would be helpful. I certainly don't have any physical or financial resources to invest but as co-organiser of Australian Open Data meetup (started by Steven Adler) I hope to get something going in coming weeks. Right now I just want to settle on a venue and then organise a topic related event starting with health given my recent contacts in that area.
There is an event on in Sydney in April run by/at a gov agency the details of which will soon be posted the details on the meetup at http://www.meetup.com/Australia-Open-Data/

It's all underway, its just taking a while. If you can donate a venue on a monthly basis in Sydney city (I think Sat afternoons would be best for my purpose), that can fit 30 people, please let me know.

Rosie Williams BA (Sociology)________________________________________

 NoFibs.com.au - Open Data Reporter InfoAus.net - Founder and Developer 

Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2015 14:58:31 +1100
From: fiona.c.tweedie at gmail.com
To: okfn-au at lists.okfn.org
Subject: Re: [@OKFNau] speaking of values...

Hi Paul,

As an organiser/ board member thanks for your comments. "Fix the website" has been on our to-do list for some time now - it's challenging when the organisation itself is in a fair bit of flux but you're right, we do ourselves no favours by being difficult to contact. And having an ugly website.

If you are interested in being more involved, can I ask where you are located and what sort of activity you'd like to see? Supporting local chapters to be more active is our major priority this year (now that we exist as a legal entity!). In Melbourne, we've got a group that is meeting weekly but I'd love to see more regular activities around the country. I'm not asking you to commit to running a weekly meetup (yet!) but would you be interested in helping to make a meetup group happen? We're more than happy to share all our experience in running the local group and have a small amount of funding that can help to pay for snacks etc for OK-badged activities.

best,
Fiona

---
Dr Fiona Tweedie
Co-chair, Open Knowledge Australia
Fiona.C.Tweedie at gmail.com | @FCTweedie
au.okfn.org | @OKFNau

On 23 March 2015 at 13:59, Steve Bennett <stevage at gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Paul,  Yeah, it's a good idea, and hard to maintain of course. And hard to define what is "an OKFNau project". At the very least we could point to a few starting places to look, like the Github repo (https://github.com/okfnau), Meetup etc.
Perhaps if we get better at blogging, then that can also start to fill the void.
Steve
On Sun, Mar 22, 2015 at 4:25 PM, Paul Walsh <paulywalsh at gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Steve,
Thanks for the links. 
I saw Open Council Data mentioned earlier in this thread, and had a look on github. This is right up my alley in terms of interests and projects I'm working on at present. I'll open an issue on github to talk about that with you.
I'll note in the context of this discussion that it would be great to be able to discover projects and initiatives like this, and people involved in them, right from the home page of OKFNau: the site tells the visitor about ambassadors and the advisory board, but doesn't highlight projects, nor give any idea of who is working on what. Perhaps an au take on okfnlabs.org, or just a simple projects page with links to code, data, and maintainers would be useful?
Paul
On 21 Mar 2015, at 14:52, Steve Bennett <stevage at gmail.com> wrote:

Hi everyone,  I'm an OK ambassador in Melbourne. Thanks for the criticisms - anyone who has volunteered or worked in an organisation like this will probably know the challenge in constantly keeping the world updated on what you're up to. It's also really hard to get a sense of how well informed the broader community. Anyway, don't wait for 1-2 years next time to ask what's going on - chime in earlier! :)
Anyway, as far as Melbourne goes, most of the current activity is based around weekly meetups taking place at ThoughtWorks. These have ramped up a lot this year, largely due to the efforts of Lachlan Musicman, Matt Cengia, and Fiona Tweedie. We're getting a solid 20-30 people each night.www.meetup.com/Open-Knowledge-Melbourne/
We're making a concerted effort to blog every meetup on the OKFN AU blog: http://au.okfn.org/blog/
We also post a fair amount to Twitter: https://twitter.com/okfnau
One of the big activities I'm personally involved in at the moment is http://opencouncildata.org(Assistance welcome!)
I've blogged a lot of stuff I've done in the last few months at http://melbdataguru.tumblr.com
I'm currently working with VicRoads and Geelong on releasing certain datasets, but it's probably not fair on them to talk about it too publicly in case there's a last minute hitch.
Steve
On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 10:48 PM, Paul Walsh <paulywalsh at gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
I just want to back what Cobi has said here:
I’ve been on this list (and some other Australian open data lists) for the last 1-2 years. From the outside, it simply looks like next to nothing is happening at okfnau. I’d really like to get more involved but lists like this and Open Australia are relatively inactive most of the time: I can see why Cobi created the pad on the main OK site in order to share some info.
I’m an Australian but I’ve been living out of Australia for 10 years: I’ve been working on a number of open data/open gov projects in the last 3 years, including Open Knowledge projects (I’m currently a full-time contractor with OK, and I maintain the Open Data Index, as well as work on other projects). 
Another point: I never see mention of new OK projects on this list - and there is a lot happening in terms of data tooling and open standards for data!
Botton line: I’d love to be more involved, and I guess for me, that would mean seeing more of what is actually happening in OKFNau (more writeups on meetings, plans), as well as more specifically, engaging with people who want to start specific initiatives.
Paul

On 20 Mar 2015, at 06:36, Cobi Alison Smith <cobi.smith at unimelb.edu.au> wrote:
Steven – yes, (unintentional?) secrecy around plans for an OK Festival down under was one of my frustrations, I’m glad it came to mind J Another of my frustrations has been difficulties in documenting OK activities, which led for example to me creating this https://pad.okfn.org/p/opendevaus rather than writing a blog post or documenting it in any way on the actual OKFNau website. Likewise no documentation of the open data journalism group at The Age early last year, which is acknowledge via logos here http://datajournalismcourse.net/learninggroups.php but nowhere on the OKFNau site. I mention that for two reasons:1)      acknowledging I have also been complicit in lack of transparency via lack of documentation of stuff happening J2)      noting that including the range of activities and discussion outcomes (like Will’s recent example) makes a case for broad support for a festival, as opposed to engaging the same people and seeking support from the same places based on assumptions about who & what OK in Australia is and does. I’m hoping OK in Australia is going to move towards a more open and accessible platform for contributions, like http://publiclab.org or any such wiki-based org, and I hope the festival will have an open and transparent planning and submissions process, like http://wikimania2014.wikimedia.org for example. From: okfn-au [mailto:okfn-au-bounces at lists.okfn.org] On Behalf Of Steven De Costa
Sent: Friday, 20 March 2015 6:11 AM
To: Open Knowledge discussion list for Australia.
Subject: Re: [@OKFNau] speaking of values... That all sounds fair Cobi :) Venting some frustration is healthy too. Open doors lead to all kinds of places. What is the lack of transparency you are talking about regarding okfnau? We have a Board meeting only just recently set for 31 March. It would be good to know what you are referring to so it can be sorted out :) I hope to do a blog post on the board meeting dates soon - probably Saturday as I'm on flights and such in about an hour. Happy to also take any questions from anyone on this list into the agenda too. It should be a good meeting as a bunch of things will be ticked off and allow for more clarity all-round regarding 2015. Cheers,Steven STEVEN DE COSTA | EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR
www.linkdigital.com.au     On 19 March 2015 at 15:04, Cobi Alison Smith <cobi.smith at unimelb.edu.au> wrote:To throw the cat among the pigeons, I’m going to add a couple of points: -          I don’t think OKFNau is in a great position to be pushing for change right now, given lack of transparency about upcoming plans & governance changes in the wake of broader OK changes. It’s easy to criticise; it’s harder to lead by example. Consider how hard it is for OKFNau to manage this – then consider government departments which have way more inertia & less knowledge. Yes, OK folk are volunteers whereas government employees get paid, and yes change should and will happen – but I think OKFNau is unintentionally complacent in the same way governments can be. -          I want to echo and amplify Rosie’s comment that you can speak but that doesn’t mean people will hear. And when people express frustration via jokes about violence, it means those of us who are trying to be heard and create change within organizations have to deal with more barriers. The last thing we need in Australia is for transparency to be further undermined by perceived risks of kneecapping, kidnapping, or any kind of bogus security paranoia. Less hostility and more inclusivity please. The more folk from government who are on this list asking for help the better; making them feel unwelcome via sneers & such isn’t conducive to positive change.   Incidentally, Rosie have you considered a Shuttleworth Fellowship?https://www.shuttleworthfoundation.org/applications/ I was being encouraged to apply while I was in Geneva last year – I think you deserve it much more. Cheers, Cobi From: okfn-au [mailto:okfn-au-bounces at lists.okfn.org] On Behalf Of Rosie Williams
Sent: Thursday, 19 March 2015 12:19 PM
To: Open Knowledge discussion list for Australia.
Subject: Re: [@OKFNau] Examples of Use of Commercial Government Data Just this week I had to try to convince a New Enterprise Incentive Scheme business advisor that what I do has value. His first comment to me was ' I suspect there might copyright issues'. I then explained to him the definition of open data and it's relationship to copyright. He seemed unaware of the concept, not to mention a bit sceptical. How he would 'advise' me remains to be seen. I spent a fair bit of the time trying to explain to him that tenders and grants data are actually different things. I didn't get far. If I am not able to convince this person of the value of what I do I will be put to work cleaning hospitals. I don't mind the work but it would be sad if I have to stop doing what is so valuable for society because of the lack of appreciation of open data in wider society. I guess when it comes to convincing people of something you can speak but that does not guarantee the recipient will hear what you say. Still, I live in hope ;-) Apologies if you've been visiting BudgetAus this week, I've been making huge changes and for long periods and both at home and the library where I work the internet has been up and down like a yo-yo.  It's starting to look good now though and giving me the opportunity to try new things.

Rosie Williams BA (Sociology)________________________________________  NoFibs.com.au - Open Data Reporter InfoAus.net - Founder and Developer                                                                    Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2015 02:54:03 +1100
From: steven.decosta at linkdigital.com.au
To: okfn-au at lists.okfn.org
Subject: Re: [@OKFNau] Examples of Use of Commercial Government Data

You folks are cool :) great discussion going on here. After being in Kiev and spending a lot of time with Government officials there I now realize just how lucky we are in Australia. Ukraine has 1,200 government services and of those only two are currently delivered via a digital medium. There is zero bureaucratic latitude to do anything outside the law so every process change starts with a change to legislation. Having said that I still hold to the belief that eGovernment is inevitable and open data that is generated by transparently operated digital government services is the 'killer app' for today's democracy. I expect the Federal Digital Transformation Office will help create a wave of change through all levels of Australian Government and digital bureaucrats will become the norm in all agencies.  Going 'native' now has a new meaning. Hoots!

On Wednesday, March 18, 2015, Tennessee Leeuwenburg <tleeuwenburg at gmail.com> wrote:Hi Lachlan, In my frustrated moments, I think that about the whole world, not just government :). I think it's amazing when anyone manages to find a way to be successful through openness, and it's the way of the future. If only we could get there :)  You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one... -T On 16 March 2015 at 15:02, Lachlan Musicman <datakid at gmail.com> wrote:I deserve that rebuke and I think Pia makes a good point. But it's
also true that from *outside* government, it can be hard to be
anything but cynical, and I am not often seeing that change of
attitude that you claim - as someone bubbling with impatience on the
outside, I see feet draggers and excuse makers. I think that different
levels of government (Fed, State, Local) probably have different
opinions and different levels of commitment as well. I know I should
be differentiating between them, but in reality, I just see a wall of
Government.

Good to see the discussion take off ;)

CheersL.

------
The totalitarian society envisioned by George Orwell in 1984 should
have arrived by now. The electronic gadgets are here. The government
is here, ready to do what Orwell anticipated. So the power exists, the
motive, and the electronic hardware. But these mean nothing, because,
progressively more and more so, no one is listening. The new youth
that I see is too stupid to read, too restless and bored to watch, too
preoccupied to remember. The collective voice of the authorities is
wasted on him; he rebels. But rebels not out of theoretical,
ideological considerations, only out of what might be called pure
selfishness. Plus a careless lack of regard for the dread consequences
the authorities promise him if he fails to obey. He cannot be bribed
because what he wants he can build, steal, or in some curious,
intricate way acquire for himself. He cannot be intimidated because on
the streets and in his home he has seen and participated in so much
violence that it fails to cow him. He merely gets out of its way when
it threatens, or, if he can't escape, he fights back. When the locked
police van comes to carry him off to the concentration camp the guards
will discover that while loading the van they have failed to note that
another equally hopeless juvenile has slashed the tires. The van is
out of commission. And while the tires are being replaced, the other
youth siphons out all the gas from the gas tank for his souped-up
Chevrolet Impala and has sped off long ago.
----
The Android and the Human, Philip K. Dick
sourced from http://boingboing.net/2015/03/10/philip-k-dicks-androids-blu.htmlOn 15 March 2015 at 11:22, Pia Waugh <pia.waugh at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Just a quick one:
>
> On Fri, Mar 13, 2015 at 3:30 PM, Lachlan Musicman <datakid at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Government officials. I cannot express how grateful I am that there are
>> people in this organisation who can talk pretty because I just want to break
>> their kneecaps and push them into puddles with a sneer.
>
>
> It'd be really cool if people could remember that "government officials" are
> not a faceless enemy. There are a lot of us working in government to improve
> things, and comments like this certainly don't help. If you make it a
> "you're either with us or agin us" then you make it very hard to
> collaborate, educate or change the status quo. Personally I'm finding
> attitudes are changing within Australian governments (fed, state/territory
> and local) quite rapidly and I'm cautiously optimistic things will continue
> to get better. Meanwhile, I guess we'll start issuing knee protectors as
> standard issue across the public service ;)
>
> Cheers,
> Pia
>> _______________________________________________
> okfn-au mailing list
> okfn-au at lists.okfn.org
> https://lists.okfn.org/mailman/listinfo/okfn-au
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 ----------------------------------------------------
Tennessee Leeuwenburg
http://myownhat.blogspot.com/
"Don't believe everything you think"

-- STEVEN DE COSTA | EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR
www.linkdigital.com.au    

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