[@OKau] Tenders data no derivatives?????
Simon Cropper
simoncropper at fossworkflowguides.com
Fri May 15 01:29:17 UTC 2015
Hi Rosie,
Well.. I was not confused but now I am. Your original query pointed to
the tenders.gov.au website and below you are pointing to the data.gov.au
website. They contain and distribute different data sets -- the main
distinction being the currency.
http://data.gov.au/dataset?q=tenders&sort=extras_harvest_portal+asc%2C+score+desc
http://data.gov.au/dataset?q=charities&sort=extras_harvest_portal+asc%2C+score+desc
https://www.tenders.gov.au/?event=public.ATM.list
In my experience the devil is in the detail. Clarification of whether
you could potentially breach copyright or what you are actually allowed
to do with the data requires you to explicitly clarify what is being
used, where it came from and what you are doing with it.
On 15/05/15 11:10, Rosie Williams wrote:
> Hi Simon,
>
> I just want to make clear in case of any confusion, I'm not scraping
> anything. All three data sets, (Commonwealth) tenders, grants (that I'm
> using) and charities data are open data. Tenders and charities datasets
> are published at data.gov.au and grants data is published on the
> Department of Social Services website according to the specification
> recently implemented for the purposes of submitting all Commonwealth
> agency grant funding data to grants.gov.au to create a site similar to
> tenders.gov.au
>
> It would seem (potentially) that running a query that matches the ABN &
> entity name across 2 or 3 of these existing open data sets and
> publishing the results constitutes a derivative work that is therefore
> prohibited under the existing licence.
>
> This is probably something the government needs to think about.
>
> cheers,
>
> Rosie Williams BA (Sociology)
> ________________________________________
> NoFibs.com.au <http://nofibs.com.au> - Open Data Reporter | InfoAus.net
> <http://infoaus.net> - Founder and Developer
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> From: budgetaus at hotmail.com
> To: okfn-au at lists.okfn.org
> Date: Fri, 15 May 2015 11:33:18 +1030
> Subject: Re: [@OKau] Tenders data no derivatives?????
>
> Thanks guys- might take you up on that offer Steven. I only noticed the
> extra 'ND' in the footer this morning as my decision to use tenders data
> is fairly recent. I'm actually quite curious about why it has been
> limited in this way as the explanation should make interesting reading.
> I'm also concerned about the implications for my databases using grants
> data if similar limitations are placed on grants.gov.au data when it
> comes online.
>
> I don't know if what I'm doing is an exception to the rule about
> adaption or not. As Cobi says, it would be good to have such useful
> discussions on a list about open knowledge. The things I'll be doing
> with data are hardly unusual.
>
> If I do end up having to argue my case, it's worth noting that it is not
> just 'my' case I'd be arguing but the case on behalf of all the people
> who would be interested in the information resulting from re-mixing and
> adaptation. I can only imagine how affronted this (growing) community
> will be if they are told that having the data made useful to them is
> something the government is explicitly denying.
>
> I'll also have to work out how to fund what looks to be a big (for one
> person) project if I'm not allowed to use the data for commercial
> purposes. My intention is to crowdfund (either amount per project or an
> amount to fund my work generally). I'm actually supposed to be
> researching this decision right now for the purposes of my NEIS business
> plan due to be completed shortly so I'm glad this issue raised its head
> when it did.
>
> Having met with my University of Sydney business students yesterday to
> hear the strategies they are proposing for my future business, I also
> second Cobi on how discussions on this list can help make it clear what
> open data means in specific instances such as this.
>
> Rosie Williams BA (Sociology)
> ________________________________________
> NoFibs.com.au <http://nofibs.com.au> - Open Data Reporter | InfoAus.net
> <http://infoaus.net> - Founder and Developer
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> From: cobi.smith at unimelb.edu.au
> To: okfn-au at lists.okfn.org
> Date: Thu, 14 May 2015 22:52:59 +0000
> Subject: Re: [@OKau] Tenders data no derivatives?????
>
> I strongly support Rosie in clarifying this, in the process raising
> awareness of what open data means. The extra effort needed to use the
> data and the uncertainty about what is intended use demonstrate how a no
> derivatives license as opposed to open data can stifle innovation.
>
> I would suggest (splaining to some on this list) that public domain is
> more complicated than that - yes you *can* access the data, certainly
> public interest supports its use, but given they've gone to the effort
> of licensing it, remixing without explicitly getting permission first
> could upset people whose trust and goodwill should be factored in given
> focus on building community and trust.
>
> It may be unfair that the burden is placed on Rosie, a small business
> owner "having a go" as the current government wants, to argue this case
> with public servants on stable incomes - an example of why open data is
> an equity issue. I'd rather see this discussion become a case study of
> organisational and behavioural change towards openness rather than a
> debate about fairness and equity. It's also about efficiency, an
> alternative frame for those who value equity less.
> Eg.
> "when Richard Stallman says that information should be given out freely,
> his opinion is not based on a notion of property as theft, which (right
> or wrong) would be an ethical position. His argument is that keeping
> information secret is inefficient; it leads to unaesthetic duplication
> of effort."
>
> In economicspeak, this effort is Rosie investing in research and
> development. The dynamic learning effect of her as a business in an
> infant industry benefits not only her own small business but the broader
> technology industry, with spillover effects in other industries. Rosie
> is innovating in Australia's technology services industry - I wonder if
> there was support in the budget for small businesses like this whose
> business models depend upon creation in the sharing economy, rather than
> consumption and proprietary display of rivalrous common-pool resources?
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* okfn-au [okfn-au-bounces at lists.okfn.org] on behalf of Steven De
> Costa [steven.decosta at linkdigital.com.au]
> *Sent:* Friday, 15 May 2015 8:10 AM
> *To:* Open Knowledge discussion list for Australia.
> *Subject:* Re: [@OKau] Tenders data no derivatives?????
>
> The material in the public domain should be fine. As per the notice:
>
> * You do not have to comply with the license for elements of the
> material in the public domain or where your use is permitted by an
> applicable exception or limitation
> <http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nd/3.0/au/#>.
> * There are commercial aggregation services which recontext public
> tenders for discovery. Perhaps take a look at the way they do it...
>
> Also I suspect you'd be able to get clearance if you contacted the
> platform admins. I'm happy to help argue your request :)
>
> Cheers,
> Steven
>
> On Friday, May 15, 2015, Rosie Williams <budgetaus at hotmail.com
> <mailto:budgetaus at hotmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> I would like to create an open data use case based on the
> Commonwealth tenders data at tenders.gov.au <http://tenders.gov.au>.
> This data has the licence CC by 3.0-ND which includes:
>
> * *NoDerivatives* — If you remix, transform, or build upon
> <http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nd/3.0/au/#> the
> material, you may not distribute the modified material.
>
> http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nd/3.0/au/
>
>
> I suspect that the requirements that I am gathering from prospective
> users (and will continue to gather) might constitute an adaptation.
> I was hoping for some clarification of this and also why this
> limitation has been placed on this data as I am puzzled as to its
> existence and am inclined to challenge it.
>
> One of the things I was potentially going to do was combine data
> from tenders, grants and ACNC register data. I am unclear if this
> constitutes an adaptation and if so why this would be prohibited?
>
> People also want data presented in a way that is meaningful to them
> ie with context. This can involve mathematical context created by
> providing statistics (totals, percentages, averages etc) and also
> combining data with other data eg ABS data. This is what makes data
> of use to people.
>
> I would like to know if the uses that people actually want the
> Commonwealth tenders data put to are prohibited under the current
> licence, if so why and how that can be changed?
>
> It is also worth asking whether the same limitations are going to be
> applied to grants.gov.au <http://grants.gov.au> when it comes online?
>
> thanks in advance,
>
> Rosie Williams BA (Sociology)
> ________________________________________
> NoFibs.com.au <http://nofibs.com.au> - Open Data Reporter |
> InfoAus.net <http://infoaus.net> - Founder and Developer
>
>
>
> --
> *STEVEN DE COSTA *|*EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR
> *www.linkdigital.com.au <http://www.linkdigital.com.au/>
>
>
>
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--
Cheers Simon
Simon Cropper - Open Content Creator
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