[okfn-hu] Planning for open data workshop in Budapest, 20th May

Mon May 2 23:45:03 UTC 2011

Thanks for your message Peter! Answers inline below...

On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 9:04 PM, Peter Gervai <grinapo at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 21:12, Jonathan Gray <jonathan.gray at okfn.org> wrote:
>
>> The event was always intended to be a [...]
>
> I cannot really emphasize on the point that I haven't been had the
> faintest idea what this event _is_.

The event is an unconference about open government data in Hungary.
>From the website:

<quote>
A hands-on workshop for those interested in reusing open government
data in Hungary.

Participants will include developers, researchers, journalists, NGOs,
and others who are interested in consuming or building useful or
interesting things using information from public bodies in Hungary.

The day will include:
  * mapping out public data in Hungary using a community driven data catalogue
  * planning and making applications using Hungarian public data
</quote>

Here's the website: http://ogd-budapest.eventbrite.com/

Open data is data which anyone is free to reuse and redistribute
without restriction. Much like the material in Wikipedia or open
source software. (As I'm sure you're aware!)

Here's a short film about open government data:
http://opengovernmentdata.org/film

Again - I'm sure you know all of this!

> I get invited to much more events
> than I have time to attend and I do not really like events where
> nothing happens apart from smart people telling other smart people
> what a wonderful world this could be if people were doing nice things
> instead of stupid things. Of course there is a place for political
> chitchat at a coffee but ... I would rather let others to do that. I
> often have to waste my time on people in key positions who act like
> they cared while they clearly don't, and trying to change the world
> while the world clearly resists. It makes pretty annoying to attend
> events where it isn't even planned to try to have any effect
> whatsoever.

We'd love it if you came - but no-one is forcing you! :-)

Personally I have several things that I'd like to do (e.g. find out
more about Hungarian spending data, and map out data sources using the
Hungarian instance of CKAN) - but I'm also very keen to learn more
about what other people want to do with open data. E.g. what are
journalists, NGOs, developers, and others interested in doing with
open data.

Perhaps you have different or higher expectations than me about what
can be achieved in a single event. The most I'd hope for is fruitful
meetings and conversations that might lead on to other interesting
collaborations or projects - and perhaps e.g. making some small web
app(s). It will be 'hands on' in the sense that I hope we'll get stuck
into some datasets, dataset mapping and some coding. We hope it will
be engaging and fun - at least for people who are interested in this
sort of thing. ;-)

For a taste of what this might be like and what kinds of things we
might do/talk about, based on other events we've run in the past, see,
e.g.:

http://blog.okfn.org/2008/11/04/after-the-workshop-on-public-information/
http://lod2.okfn.org/2011/03/26/meetings-on-open-government-data-in-france/
http://opengovernmentdata.org/camp2010/after/
http://blog.okfn.org/2010/12/16/exploring-european-energy-data/

While we have some experience of open data laws and policies across
Europe and internationally (e.g. Dr. Rufus Pollock has done some
economic research which informed UK government's open data policy [1],
we help to run ePSIplatform, which is all about European PSI reuse
policy [2]) - I would guess that this will be much less focused on
policy and politics, and much more focused on building a stronger data
reuser community, on how open data can be used to enable things like
useful web applications, better reportage, more evidence based
policies, etc, and practical things like starting to code on such
projects and figuring out what is needed to take things forward.

I'm keen to come along to listen (e.g. to what people want, what
they'd like and what they are working on), and to see if there's any
way we (as a small NGO with limited resources) can be helpful.

[1] http://rufuspollock.org/economics/papers/psi-funding-options/
[2] http://www.epsiplatform.eu/

> This "unconference" isn't described as such, at least it wasn't, and I
> still don't really get what it's about apart from telling each others
> what we already know. Look at the document you opened in etherpad,
> where I have appended just really a few thoughts on the topic, which
> could easily fill a 3 days "real" conference with people in the
> position who could do about it and won't.  I can tell you these, I can
> easily talk about it for hours, and it wouldn't change anything.

Thanks for your input. Your aims are all fairly big (free Hungary's
data!) for such a small workshop. Do you have any smaller concrete
things you'd like to discuss or work on? E.g. an app, plugin,
extension or service that you'd like to build using open data?

FWIW we definitely won't be preaching to the converted. Or telling
anyone what to do! :-)

>From my point of view - as a small NGO from another country with very
little knowledge of the local situation in Hungary - I don't think we
can thunder in and expect to change things in one day. For me this is
much more about meeting people, understanding what people are
interested in, hopefully meeting some good coders and researchers (and
perhaps some budding data journalists!), and getting the ball rolling
on some projects which may be of shared interest. Personally I'm
mainly interested in learning more about the experiences and interests
of others - and seeing if there's any way that the OKF can support the
open data community in Budapest, and in Hungary more generally.

Would you *really* prefer us to organise a 3 day conference on the
intricacies of PSI law and policy? If so have you seen the LAPSI or
Share PSI events later this month [3]? We were much more keen to meet
people and have a go at making stuff, as is generally the OKF's wont.
;-)

[3] see http://www.lapsi-project.eu/milan and http://share-psi.eu/cfp/

> So I hope you know what you're doing.

If you mean running a small open data event then 'yes'. If you mean
radically changing Hungarian information policy overnight then
definitely 'no'! :-)

>> small informal 'unconference' or
>> 'Barcamp' for developers, NGOs, journalists and others interested in
>> open government data in Hungary. We are going to see who is there on
>> the day and what they are interested in doing and making.
>
> We had recently a mass protest on the streets every week about various
> things, sometimes even famous people out there. Nothing's changed, not
> even a bit. Nobody gave a poo up there. I guess I just got tired to
> see those who's interested and cannot do a thing about it.
>
>> several people have requested information about an agenda, I thought
>> we could do a bit of planning in advance so we can hit the ground
>> running! :-)
>
> Now imagine my little insignificant myself. Sometimes people ask me to
> meet them, to go to events they nurture or worry about, and I have my
> family, job and pretty time consuming hobbies. I usually try to go out
> as few as possible because most of these events do not give me
> anything valuable, while they definitely take away my precious time.
> So when someone doesn't even tell me what it's about and I don't know
> why should I go there... what's the point? Only those will attend who
> have plenty of time, or like to go out and meet people no matter
> whether it's about the right to have sex for sweetwater fish or the
> coal mining association's annual meeting. I try to pick events I do
> care about and try to pick those which offer expected results for my
> time spent.
>
> This unconference or whatever you call it is a big, ugly black hole. I
> may go because I wonder who's there or rather in the hope that
> regardless of the lack of information and visible purpose it may
> actually be something useful. Or I'll sigh and say to myself "oh well,
> another wasted day, again".

Indeed - there aren't enough hours in the day! If you can make it I
look forward to meeting you. If not, then perhaps another time.

Regarding the lack of information do you have any *specific* questions
that I or others might be able to help answer? I can add more
information to the registration page if useful. Apologies if this
isn't enough to be informative. We've been very busy recently. We're
doing this because we thought it would be fun and possibly useful or
helpful. If you think it will be rubbish or pointless - then its
always useful to know about specific things we can improve!

>> This is not to be confused with the event the day before (on the 19th)
>> with Hungarian civil servants, representatives from the European
>> Commission and EU member states - which is a more structured, formal
>> affair with presentations and talks.
>
> This event is a fscking SECRET. Don't tell me it's not to be confused
> with because I do not even know about it. It has been mentioned as
> some great thing beyond the blue event horizon. Something which
> actually aim at being having some purpose. And I heard it's AFTER
> 20th. And that maybe 20th could provide INPUT to this secret useful
> event. But now I see it's about to be a complete waste, since key
> people are already done, and civil puppets' talk isn't good for
> anything. We can happily tell each other how great we are, how stupid
> the government is, and that better luck next time, insert coin.

Sorry - I had mentioned this to several people when I met them in
Budapest a little while ago. Shortly after we had that meeting, we set
up this mailing list!

It is a meeting for government officials from Hungary and other EU
member states to learn more about open government data initiatives
around Europe. Further details are available here:

http://lod2.okfn.org/2011/04/28/open-data-workshops-in-budapest-19-20th-may-2011/

I'll certainly report back here with more information.

Maybe see you in a few weeks!

Jonathan

> *shrug*
>
>> All the best,
>
> Indeed. Somehow.
>
> Have a nice day,
> Peter
>
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-- 
Jonathan Gray

Community Coordinator
The Open Knowledge Foundation
http://blog.okfn.org

http://twitter.com/jwyg
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