[okfn-hu] Planning for open data workshop in Budapest, 20th May

Mon May 2 23:57:22 UTC 2011

Peter, I also fully agree with your point on the Etherpad:

"I am pretty much against listing "open data" with "unknown license".
I do not really find the idea to scrape data with unknown license
appealing, especially because it could poison otherwise clean and
freely usable data. I suggest not to mix unknown status data with
known ones."

A little while back we hacked together a basic web service to help
people make (and log) enquiries about whether or not a given dataset
is open as in opendefintion.org. We also list this kind of information
on CKAN.net (which powers data.gov.uk and over 30+ data catalogues
around the world).

As you've been involved in Open Street Map in Hungary - I wonder if
you know of cases where Hungarian public bodies have co-operated with
OSM to openly license public geospatial datasets?

J.

On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 12:45 AM, Jonathan Gray <jonathan.gray at okfn.org> wrote:
> Thanks for your message Peter! Answers inline below...
>
> On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 9:04 PM, Peter Gervai <grinapo at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 21:12, Jonathan Gray <jonathan.gray at okfn.org> wrote:
>>
>>> The event was always intended to be a [...]
>>
>> I cannot really emphasize on the point that I haven't been had the
>> faintest idea what this event _is_.
>
> The event is an unconference about open government data in Hungary.
> From the website:
>
> <quote>
> A hands-on workshop for those interested in reusing open government
> data in Hungary.
>
> Participants will include developers, researchers, journalists, NGOs,
> and others who are interested in consuming or building useful or
> interesting things using information from public bodies in Hungary.
>
> The day will include:
>  * mapping out public data in Hungary using a community driven data catalogue
>  * planning and making applications using Hungarian public data
> </quote>
>
> Here's the website: http://ogd-budapest.eventbrite.com/
>
> Open data is data which anyone is free to reuse and redistribute
> without restriction. Much like the material in Wikipedia or open
> source software. (As I'm sure you're aware!)
>
> Here's a short film about open government data:
> http://opengovernmentdata.org/film
>
> Again - I'm sure you know all of this!
>
>> I get invited to much more events
>> than I have time to attend and I do not really like events where
>> nothing happens apart from smart people telling other smart people
>> what a wonderful world this could be if people were doing nice things
>> instead of stupid things. Of course there is a place for political
>> chitchat at a coffee but ... I would rather let others to do that. I
>> often have to waste my time on people in key positions who act like
>> they cared while they clearly don't, and trying to change the world
>> while the world clearly resists. It makes pretty annoying to attend
>> events where it isn't even planned to try to have any effect
>> whatsoever.
>
> We'd love it if you came - but no-one is forcing you! :-)
>
> Personally I have several things that I'd like to do (e.g. find out
> more about Hungarian spending data, and map out data sources using the
> Hungarian instance of CKAN) - but I'm also very keen to learn more
> about what other people want to do with open data. E.g. what are
> journalists, NGOs, developers, and others interested in doing with
> open data.
>
> Perhaps you have different or higher expectations than me about what
> can be achieved in a single event. The most I'd hope for is fruitful
> meetings and conversations that might lead on to other interesting
> collaborations or projects - and perhaps e.g. making some small web
> app(s). It will be 'hands on' in the sense that I hope we'll get stuck
> into some datasets, dataset mapping and some coding. We hope it will
> be engaging and fun - at least for people who are interested in this
> sort of thing. ;-)
>
> For a taste of what this might be like and what kinds of things we
> might do/talk about, based on other events we've run in the past, see,
> e.g.:
>
> http://blog.okfn.org/2008/11/04/after-the-workshop-on-public-information/
> http://lod2.okfn.org/2011/03/26/meetings-on-open-government-data-in-france/
> http://opengovernmentdata.org/camp2010/after/
> http://blog.okfn.org/2010/12/16/exploring-european-energy-data/
>
> While we have some experience of open data laws and policies across
> Europe and internationally (e.g. Dr. Rufus Pollock has done some
> economic research which informed UK government's open data policy [1],
> we help to run ePSIplatform, which is all about European PSI reuse
> policy [2]) - I would guess that this will be much less focused on
> policy and politics, and much more focused on building a stronger data
> reuser community, on how open data can be used to enable things like
> useful web applications, better reportage, more evidence based
> policies, etc, and practical things like starting to code on such
> projects and figuring out what is needed to take things forward.
>
> I'm keen to come along to listen (e.g. to what people want, what
> they'd like and what they are working on), and to see if there's any
> way we (as a small NGO with limited resources) can be helpful.
>
> [1] http://rufuspollock.org/economics/papers/psi-funding-options/
> [2] http://www.epsiplatform.eu/
>
>> This "unconference" isn't described as such, at least it wasn't, and I
>> still don't really get what it's about apart from telling each others
>> what we already know. Look at the document you opened in etherpad,
>> where I have appended just really a few thoughts on the topic, which
>> could easily fill a 3 days "real" conference with people in the
>> position who could do about it and won't.  I can tell you these, I can
>> easily talk about it for hours, and it wouldn't change anything.
>
> Thanks for your input. Your aims are all fairly big (free Hungary's
> data!) for such a small workshop. Do you have any smaller concrete
> things you'd like to discuss or work on? E.g. an app, plugin,
> extension or service that you'd like to build using open data?
>
> FWIW we definitely won't be preaching to the converted. Or telling
> anyone what to do! :-)
>
> From my point of view - as a small NGO from another country with very
> little knowledge of the local situation in Hungary - I don't think we
> can thunder in and expect to change things in one day. For me this is
> much more about meeting people, understanding what people are
> interested in, hopefully meeting some good coders and researchers (and
> perhaps some budding data journalists!), and getting the ball rolling
> on some projects which may be of shared interest. Personally I'm
> mainly interested in learning more about the experiences and interests
> of others - and seeing if there's any way that the OKF can support the
> open data community in Budapest, and in Hungary more generally.
>
> Would you *really* prefer us to organise a 3 day conference on the
> intricacies of PSI law and policy? If so have you seen the LAPSI or
> Share PSI events later this month [3]? We were much more keen to meet
> people and have a go at making stuff, as is generally the OKF's wont.
> ;-)
>
> [3] see http://www.lapsi-project.eu/milan and http://share-psi.eu/cfp/
>
>> So I hope you know what you're doing.
>
> If you mean running a small open data event then 'yes'. If you mean
> radically changing Hungarian information policy overnight then
> definitely 'no'! :-)
>
>>> small informal 'unconference' or
>>> 'Barcamp' for developers, NGOs, journalists and others interested in
>>> open government data in Hungary. We are going to see who is there on
>>> the day and what they are interested in doing and making.
>>
>> We had recently a mass protest on the streets every week about various
>> things, sometimes even famous people out there. Nothing's changed, not
>> even a bit. Nobody gave a poo up there. I guess I just got tired to
>> see those who's interested and cannot do a thing about it.
>>
>>> several people have requested information about an agenda, I thought
>>> we could do a bit of planning in advance so we can hit the ground
>>> running! :-)
>>
>> Now imagine my little insignificant myself. Sometimes people ask me to
>> meet them, to go to events they nurture or worry about, and I have my
>> family, job and pretty time consuming hobbies. I usually try to go out
>> as few as possible because most of these events do not give me
>> anything valuable, while they definitely take away my precious time.
>> So when someone doesn't even tell me what it's about and I don't know
>> why should I go there... what's the point? Only those will attend who
>> have plenty of time, or like to go out and meet people no matter
>> whether it's about the right to have sex for sweetwater fish or the
>> coal mining association's annual meeting. I try to pick events I do
>> care about and try to pick those which offer expected results for my
>> time spent.
>>
>> This unconference or whatever you call it is a big, ugly black hole. I
>> may go because I wonder who's there or rather in the hope that
>> regardless of the lack of information and visible purpose it may
>> actually be something useful. Or I'll sigh and say to myself "oh well,
>> another wasted day, again".
>
> Indeed - there aren't enough hours in the day! If you can make it I
> look forward to meeting you. If not, then perhaps another time.
>
> Regarding the lack of information do you have any *specific* questions
> that I or others might be able to help answer? I can add more
> information to the registration page if useful. Apologies if this
> isn't enough to be informative. We've been very busy recently. We're
> doing this because we thought it would be fun and possibly useful or
> helpful. If you think it will be rubbish or pointless - then its
> always useful to know about specific things we can improve!
>
>>> This is not to be confused with the event the day before (on the 19th)
>>> with Hungarian civil servants, representatives from the European
>>> Commission and EU member states - which is a more structured, formal
>>> affair with presentations and talks.
>>
>> This event is a fscking SECRET. Don't tell me it's not to be confused
>> with because I do not even know about it. It has been mentioned as
>> some great thing beyond the blue event horizon. Something which
>> actually aim at being having some purpose. And I heard it's AFTER
>> 20th. And that maybe 20th could provide INPUT to this secret useful
>> event. But now I see it's about to be a complete waste, since key
>> people are already done, and civil puppets' talk isn't good for
>> anything. We can happily tell each other how great we are, how stupid
>> the government is, and that better luck next time, insert coin.
>
> Sorry - I had mentioned this to several people when I met them in
> Budapest a little while ago. Shortly after we had that meeting, we set
> up this mailing list!
>
> It is a meeting for government officials from Hungary and other EU
> member states to learn more about open government data initiatives
> around Europe. Further details are available here:
>
> http://lod2.okfn.org/2011/04/28/open-data-workshops-in-budapest-19-20th-may-2011/
>
> I'll certainly report back here with more information.
>
> Maybe see you in a few weeks!
>
> Jonathan
>
>> *shrug*
>>
>>> All the best,
>>
>> Indeed. Somehow.
>>
>> Have a nice day,
>> Peter
>>
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>>
>
>
>
> --
> Jonathan Gray
>
> Community Coordinator
> The Open Knowledge Foundation
> http://blog.okfn.org
>
> http://twitter.com/jwyg
> http://identi.ca/jwyg
>

-- 
Jonathan Gray

Community Coordinator
The Open Knowledge Foundation
http://blog.okfn.org

http://twitter.com/jwyg
http://identi.ca/jwyg