[okfn-za] [HacksHackers Cape Town] Please Sue Me

Thu May 2 06:48:03 UTC 2013

Hi Guys

My to cents worth, having worked for government I can reliable confirm that
there is absolutely 100% chance of lobbying Gov for a change of policy.
This is because it's no where on the issue and trying to find someone who
even knows about it and in the face of the secrecy bill is non existent.

What helps change is facts on the ground. Collect as much info as
possible.  All gov budgets municipal stuff etc despite licences. Then turn
attention to info like the textbook saga - I loved the idea that students
could report book shortages.

Then make and compile such info that its easy to use.
Then make it available as a reliable source to academics and journalists
and NGO's. Equal Education would love a continually updated list of failed
textbook delivery.

This for me would be a much more certain and productive POA than lobbying
Gov.

Best

Leon G. Marincowitz
    Apologies for brevity, sent from smartphone
lmarincowitz at gmail.com
On 02 May 2013 12:46 AM, "Geoffrey Kilpin" <geoffreykilpin at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Adi,
>
> I agree that raising the issue in the national discourse is potentially
> useful - but perhaps it is a step that should be considered if we are
> unable to engage with decision makers in government.
>
> I won't pretend to know how to approach lobbying government (maybe others
> can contribute ideas?) - but I imagine working out who makes these
> decisions is the first step, followed by formulating a strategy to approach
> them. Comparing South African policies to other countries probably should
> be part of this - particularly within Africa in countries that have made
> more progress with open data than us, but also elsewhere. I just took a
> quick look at the license used for data.gov.uk - it allows commercial use
> (http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/doc/open-government-licence/).
>
> Another approach might be to just obtain legal opinion on the use of
> fact-based datasets, such as municipal boundary data. It might be easier to
> raise funds for that, and would hopefully provide at least some peace of
> mind to those using this data.
>
> Cheers,
> Geoff.
>
>
> On Wed, May 1, 2013 at 6:18 PM, Adi Eyal <adi at burgercom.co.za> wrote:
>
>> Hi Geoff
>>
>> I was waiting for your response :). The openly antagonist flavour of
>> this initiative has given me pause. The one benefit of this approach
>> is that it is openly controversial and will hopefully spark
>> discussions and raise the issue of government data into the national
>> discourse (at least a little).
>>
>> I'm keen to hear your thoughts though about how we could take the
>> alternative route of changing government policies vis a vis releasing
>> data into the public domain. Regardless I think our goals are the
>> same, i.e. changing the de facto licence under which data is made
>> available from restrictive to open.
>>
>> Adi
>>
>> On 1 May 2013 16:56, Geoffrey Kilpin <geoffreykilpin at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Hi Adi,
>> >
>> > Thanks for your work on this and the Daily Maverick column - it is very
>> > interesting to hear about the responses that you've been getting. This
>> idea
>> > is very cool - but I wonder if a potentially confrontational approach
>> is the
>> > best way to start.
>> >
>> > Maybe the goal of all this should be that all government data is placed
>> in
>> > the public domain, as is the case in the U.S. (see
>> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_Domain#Government_works).
>> >
>> > Cheers,
>> > Geoff.
>> >
>> >
>> > On Tue, Apr 30, 2013 at 3:09 PM, Adi Eyal <adi at burgercom.co.za> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Some of you may have read an article that I posted recently on the
>> >> OKFN mailing list and on the Daily Maverick with regards to the
>> >> openness of government data in South Africa.
>> >>
>> >> In that article, I described an exercise that I undertook to gain
>> >> commercial access to that data. I have had very few responses, all of
>> >> which expressly forbid commercial use.
>> >>
>> >> As per the Copyright Act, I am not certain that most of this data
>> >> qualifies for copyright protection as it usually contains a database
>> >> of facts where no innovative process was used to produce said data. On
>> >> the moral front, it seems absurd that data produced using public funds
>> >> should be restricted in such a way. In an ideal world an open data
>> >> licence would be attached to all government data allowing for re-use
>> >> without permission or restriction. Please see an excerpt from a
>> >> comment that I received from the legal advisor to parliament:
>> >>
>> >> "Should you wish to request permission or a licence to use information
>> >> on our webpage for commercial gain, I suggest you indicate the item
>> >> you want to use and the specific purpose for its use to allow us to
>> >> make an informed decision. "
>> >>
>> >> I it is unacceptable to be required to request permission to re-use a
>> >> list of MPs listed on www.parliament.gov.za
>> >>
>> >> I would like to propose a provocative response that will hopefully
>> >> spark a conversation (and despite the codename, not get me sued).
>> >> Volunteers and comments and criticisms welcome.
>> >>
>> >> The idea is as follows:
>> >>
>> >> 1. Build a website registered at www.pleasesueme.co.za
>> >> 2. Scrape a bunch of data from government website, stuff that seems to
>> >> not be copyrightable
>> >> 3. Upload it to the website and offer it up for sale for a nominal
>> >> fee. It needs to be sold so as to assert a right for general re-use.
>> >> Sold data will be re-released under an open licence.
>> >>
>> >> The money (i expect very little data to be actually sold) will be used
>> >> to fund a war-chest (however small) for a legal defense if it comes to
>> >> that. My gut feeling is that we won't get any response at all but by
>> >> being provocative, we might get people thinking about why it might be
>> >> important to push open data licences within government. We might get a
>> >> take-down notice which would be evaluated based on merit. I can't
>> >> imagine (though I am not a lawyer) that any public agency has the
>> >> time, money or wherewithal to take this to court.
>> >>
>> >> Any responses, including flames about how I'm being naive or that
>> >> antagonism is not the correct approach are welcome.
>> >>
>> >> Adi
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Adi Eyal
>> >> Data Specialist
>> >> phone: +27 78 014 2469
>> >> skype: adieyalcas
>> >> linkedin: http://za.linkedin.com/pub/dir/Adi/Eyal
>> >>
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>> >
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>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Adi Eyal
>> Data Specialist
>> phone: +27 78 014 2469
>> skype: adieyalcas
>> linkedin: http://za.linkedin.com/pub/dir/Adi/Eyal
>>
>> --
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>>
>>
>
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