[okfn-za] Open data in South Africa

Wed Nov 20 10:00:29 UTC 2013

The idea is certainly not to try and re-predict weather.

My thinking can be broken down into two questions:

   - What do people need (given certain conditions)?
   - How well are those needs serviced (when those conditions are present)?

On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 2:39 PM, Thoko Madonko <thoko.madonko at gmail.com>wrote:

> I think there needs to be a link between the emergency services and
> weather warnings.
> For example, in the WC it always seems every year there is very little pre-
> emitve preparation ahead of the rainy season.
> Surely families should be given the necessary materials ahead of the
> season than the trucks trying to get sandbags in AFTER the flooding. This
> is the same for storm damage in Limpopo for schools.
>
> Just a thought.
>
> thoko
>
> *__________________________________________*
>
>
>
>
> On 19 November 2013 14:25, Adi Eyal <adi at code4sa.org> wrote:
>
>> Apart from regurgitating the weather report, is there specific contextual
>> intelligence that you think could be useful? I don't know much about how
>> that sort of information is used.
>>
>> Adi
>>
>>
>> On 19 November 2013 11:32, Robert Elliott <robert at graphflow.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Adi,
>>>
>>> My 2 cents: the devastation in Philippines, tornados in US and flooding
>>> in Cape Town got me thinking about how basic services (energy, healthcare,
>>> education, emergency services, water supply, food supply [i see the top
>>> story today is about how a hailstorm has destroyed fruit crops in WC] etc.)
>>> are affected during extreme weather.
>>>
>>> Weather data and predictions are already available. You could start to
>>> look at a single service and expand at a later point.
>>>
>>> Ciao, Rob
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 5:53 AM, Adi Eyal <adi at code4sa.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>>  Thanks for the interesting email Axolile
>>>>
>>>> > We have had the most difficulties when having to access some financial
>>>> > information on service delivery agreements/ tenders. Budgeting
>>>> information,
>>>> > policies and informal settlements statistics have also been difficult
>>>> to
>>>> > get. We are now working on using cellphones and social media to make
>>>> the
>>>> > information accessible to everyone, especially the poor in informal
>>>> > settlements who often don't get have access.
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> Funnily enough, my gut re-action would be that the most difficult
>>>> thing would be to get people to use the information. Getting data of
>>>> course is often hard and frustrating but we already have oodles of
>>>> data that very few people are using. Is it too early to share your
>>>> insights around usage of information by consumers?
>>>>
>>>> > That being said, we are still looking for ways of accessing the
>>>> information
>>>> > ourselves without much or any difficulties. any help you guys can
>>>> provide
>>>> > would be much appreciated.
>>>>
>>>> >
>>>> > Also, you mentioned once that you have access to information on tender
>>>> > resolutions from the City of Cape Town. It would be great if you can
>>>> share
>>>> > that information with us.
>>>>
>>>> being a complete data nerd, I'm always happy to dig my teeth into an
>>>> ATI problem. When requesting access to tender award contracts, the
>>>> City of Cape Town accused me of being "frivolous and vexatious", which
>>>> only encouraged me more.
>>>>
>>>> Unfortunately, I wasn't able to get the actual contracts (they're only
>>>> stored in hard-copy format and require manually scanning). I did get
>>>> the tender resolutions for 2013 - you can find them here:
>>>> https://docs.openafrica.net/search/group:%20code4sa
>>>>
>>>> If that's not convenient, let me know and I'll upload them as a zip
>>>> file somewhere.
>>>>
>>>> Adi
>>>>
>>>> > Regards,
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 2:08 PM, Adi Eyal <adi at code4sa.org> wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >> That's the longest quick note I have ever seen :)
>>>> >>
>>>> >> On 18 November 2013 11:06, Murray Hunter <murray at r2k.org.za> wrote:
>>>> >> > A very quick note from R2K's experience - the bulk of our
>>>> membership is
>>>> >> > made
>>>> >> > up of front-line civic organisations whose primary concern is
>>>> service
>>>> >> > delivery, usually led by volunteer staff with low tech literacy.
>>>> R2K's
>>>> >> > role
>>>> >> > has mainly been in matching these orgs with PAIA-savvy
>>>> organisations
>>>> >> > like
>>>> >> > SAHA and ODAC (since they handle the direct access-to-info needs of
>>>> >> > R2K's
>>>> >> > constituent organisations).
>>>> >>
>>>> >> My feeling is that a missing ingredient here is tech-oriented
>>>> >> non-profits (or socially-minded for-profits) who can bridge the gap
>>>> >> between data and information.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> > This points to a number of challenges and shortcomings in the civil
>>>> >> > society
>>>> >> > environment: lack of analytic or technocratic capacity, low
>>>> research
>>>> >> > skills,
>>>> >> > tech literacy - and, quite possibly, a vexing lack of imagination
>>>> on our
>>>> >> > part when it comes to developing tools to mitigate all of the
>>>> above. (It
>>>> >> > also suggests is that much of the time, PAIA just isn't the tool
>>>> for the
>>>> >> > job, in as much as "access to information" requests are often
>>>> really
>>>> >> > about
>>>> >> > access to process and access to decision makers - i.e. citizens
>>>> don't
>>>> >> > want
>>>> >> > the 400-page document justifying decisions, they want the person
>>>> who
>>>> >> > made
>>>> >> > the decisions to come down to a community hall and explain those
>>>> >> > decisions.)
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I completely agree. 400 page documents need to be broken down into
>>>> >> bite-sized information that can help me choose a better school for my
>>>> >> child or lobby for better services from my municipality. Heavy
>>>> >> advocacy work has its place but naively, I would like to think that
>>>> if
>>>> >> ordinary people had the right information, they could make better
>>>> >> decisions to improve their own lives as well as those of their
>>>> >> neighbours.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> > All this has made me personally sceptical of easy fixes of the
>>>> 'tech for
>>>> >> > transparency' variety - not to reject the concept out of hand, but
>>>> >> > because
>>>> >> > because even civil society initiatives that have managed to bridge
>>>> the
>>>> >> > vast
>>>> >> > gap between those who have the skills and those who have the need,
>>>> are
>>>> >> > still
>>>> >> > figuring out what the hell to do with it.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Technology, especially hi-tech, is the wrong target. It is expensive
>>>> >> and has limited value. It is easy to get intoxicated by whizz-bang
>>>> >> when a piece of paper has more value. Having said that, a light touch
>>>> >> with technology could increase reach and potentially have larger
>>>> >> impact than a non-tech approach.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > I'm curious to know if Ndifuna Ukwazi and SJC have had success in
>>>> the
>>>> >> > past
>>>> >> > year?
>>>> >>
>>>> >> We all are.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Thanks for your thoughts.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Adi
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > MH
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > Murray Hunter
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > Right2Know Campaign
>>>> >> > www.r2k.org.za
>>>> >> > @r2kcampaign
>>>> >> > c: 072 672 5468
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > On 18 November 2013 10:06, Justin Arenstein <
>>>> justinarenstein at gmail.com>
>>>> >> > wrote:
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> Adi,
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> Hi. I think this is a crucial question, & think you should also be
>>>> >> >> pinging
>>>> >> >> ATI / PAIA orgs like ODAC and SAHA and R2K and SAHRC, etc,
>>>> directly.
>>>> >> >> Advocacy and policy work is obviously important, but only if
>>>> citizens
>>>> >> >> use
>>>> >> >> the results. Civil society and activists seem to be struggling to
>>>> >> >> translate
>>>> >> >> 'ivory tower' policy work into tangible 'real world' benefits or
>>>> >> >> services
>>>> >> >> for ordinary citizens. It would therefore be good to understand
>>>> whether
>>>> >> >> the
>>>> >> >> organisations at the forefront of ATI advocacy know of any tools /
>>>> >> >> services
>>>> >> >> that impact on ordinary citizens in a demonstratable / measurable
>>>> way.
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> Cheers,
>>>> >> >> Justin
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> Justin Arenstein
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> SA Mobile: +27.82.374.0812
>>>> >> >> US Mobile: +1.650.336.5878
>>>> >> >> Skype: JustinArenstein
>>>> >> >> Twitter: JustinArenstein
>>>> >> >> Web: http://www.linkedin.com/in/JustinArenstein
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> PGP Key Fingerprint: 8B19 3C53 2B40 453B F48D 9D7A 7346 A3AE DB88
>>>> 30CD
>>>> >> >> Do you want to email me confidentially? See: http://bit.ly/VLJt1N
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> On 18 November 2013 08:46, Adi Eyal <adi at code4sa.org> wrote:
>>>> >> >>>
>>>> >> >>> Hi All
>>>> >> >>>
>>>> >> >>> I'm looking for access to information type projects in South
>>>> Africa
>>>> >> >>> that actually reach end-users and have impact on improving human
>>>> >> >>> rights, social justice issues, service delivery or other hot
>>>> button
>>>> >> >>> issues.
>>>> >> >>>
>>>> >> >>> Transport apps and pretty visualisations are sexy but I'm
>>>> looking for
>>>> >> >>> examples that have real impact. I am struggling a little and I
>>>> was
>>>> >> >>> hoping for input from these mailing lists.
>>>> >> >>>
>>>> >> >>> Adi
>>>> >> >>>
>>>> >> >>> --
>>>> >> >>> Adi Eyal
>>>> >> >>> Strategy
>>>> >> >>> Code for South Africa
>>>> >> >>> Promoting informed decision-making
>>>> >> >>>
>>>> >> >>> phone: +27 78 014 2469
>>>> >> >>> skype: adieyalcas
>>>> >> >>> linkedin: http://za.linkedin.com/pub/dir/Adi/Eyal
>>>> >> >>> web: http://www.code4sa.org
>>>> >> >>> twitter: @soapsudtycoon
>>>> >> >>>
>>>> >> >>> For more information on how to participate in the open data
>>>> community
>>>> >> >>> in South Africa, go to: http://www.code4sa.org/#community
>>>> >> >>>
>>>> >> >>> --
>>>> >> >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the
>>>> Google
>>>> >> >>> Groups
>>>> >> >>> "Open Data and Democracy Initiative (ODADI)" group.
>>>> >> >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from
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>>>> >> >>> an
>>>> >> >>> email to odadi+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
>>>> >> >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out
>>>> .
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> --
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>>>> >> >> Groups
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>>>> >> >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
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>>>> >> >> an
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>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > --
>>>> >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>> >> > Groups
>>>> >> > "Open Data and Democracy Initiative (ODADI)" group.
>>>> >> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
>>>> send
>>>> >> > an
>>>> >> > email to odadi+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
>>>> >> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> --
>>>> >> Adi Eyal
>>>> >> Director
>>>> >> Code for South Africa
>>>> >> Promoting informed decision-making
>>>> >>
>>>> >> phone: +27 78 014 2469
>>>> >> skype: adieyalcas
>>>> >> linkedin: http://za.linkedin.com/pub/dir/Adi/Eyal
>>>> >> web: http://www.code4sa.org
>>>> >> twitter: @soapsudtycoon
>>>> >>
>>>> >> For more information on how to participate in the open data community
>>>> >> in South Africa, go to: http://www.code4sa.org/#community
>>>> >>
>>>> >> --
>>>> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>> Groups
>>>> >> "Open Data and Democracy Initiative (ODADI)" group.
>>>> >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
>>>> send an
>>>> >> email to odadi+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
>>>> >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > --
>>>> > Axolile Notywala
>>>> > Imali Yethu Project Manager
>>>> > Social Justice Coalition
>>>> > www.sjc.org.za
>>>> > Tel/Cell: +27213618160 / +27743861584
>>>> > Twitter: @Xila_Notywala
>>>> > Skype: axolile.notywala
>>>> >
>>>> > --
>>>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>> Groups
>>>> > "Open Data and Democracy Initiative (ODADI)" group.
>>>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
>>>> send an
>>>> > email to odadi+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
>>>> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Adi Eyal
>>>> Director
>>>> Code for South Africa
>>>> Promoting informed decision-making
>>>>
>>>> phone: +27 78 014 2469
>>>> skype: adieyalcas
>>>> linkedin: http://za.linkedin.com/pub/dir/Adi/Eyal
>>>> web: http://www.code4sa.org
>>>> twitter: @soapsudtycoon
>>>>
>>>> For more information on how to participate in the open data community
>>>> in South Africa, go to: http://www.code4sa.org/#community
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> <http://www.graphflow.com>
>>> Robert Elliott | Co-founder
>>> robert at graphflow.com | +27 71 882 4222 | @greenafrican<http://twitter.com/greenafrican>
>>>
>>> GraphFlow | Product, user and content recommendations
>>> www.graphflow.com | @graphflow <http://twitter.com/graphflow>
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Adi Eyal
>> Director
>> Code for South Africa
>> Promoting informed decision-making
>>
>> phone: +27 78 014 2469
>> skype: adieyalcas
>> linkedin: http://za.linkedin.com/pub/dir/Adi/Eyal
>> web: http://www.code4sa.org
>> twitter: @soapsudtycoon
>>
>> For more information on how to participate in the open data community in
>> South Africa, go to: http://www.code4sa.org/#community
>>
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>>
>

-- 
<http://www.graphflow.com>
Robert Elliott | Co-founder
robert at graphflow.com | +27 71 882 4222 |
@greenafrican<http://twitter.com/greenafrican>

GraphFlow | Product, user and content recommendations
www.graphflow.com | @graphflow <http://twitter.com/graphflow>
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