[okfn-za] [HacksHackers Jo'burg] Re: [HacksHackers Cape Town] Open Source in Government

Fri Oct 11 14:38:16 UTC 2013

I agree with Adi

I wouldn't say more people voting for a link between people/companies makes
it more "true", necessarily. Another way of doing this could be to have a
vote for "please investigate this further", so that journos can crowdsource
which potential connections the public is interested in knowing more about?

Cheers
Tea

On 11 October 2013 12:20, Adi Eyal <adi at burgercom.co.za> wrote:

> what about verification? How do you know that something is true?
>
> Adi
>
> Adi Eyal
> Data Specialist
> phone: +27 78 014 2469
> skype: adieyalcas
> linkedin: http://za.linkedin.com/pub/dir/Adi/Eyal
>
>
>
> On 11 October 2013 11:01, Charles <chuckra at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Robert****
>>
>> I think it would be worth considering going with the graph databases from
>> the start – otherwise the day when we upload the first large chunk(the
>> voters’ roll comes to mind J) will be a show-stopper until we pivot. But
>> sure, SQL can work for prototypes, as long as you know you’ll be ditching
>> it and rewriting…****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> The other point is that a link between people/companies becomes more
>> credible the more people “vote it” to be true. It just has to be good
>> enough for a journo to follow up – so we should also plan for a
>> “link-weight” parameter thingy.****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> C****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> *From:* Robert Elliott [mailto:robert at graphflow.com]
>> *Sent:* 11 October 2013 10:43
>> *To:* Thoko Madonko
>> *Cc:* Greg Kempe; Adi Eyal; Charles; okfn-za at lists.okfn.org;
>> hackshackers-johannesburg; hackshackers-capetown; odadi
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [okfn-za] [HacksHackers Cape Town] Open Source in
>> Government****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> I think 'crowdsourcing' the data is an excellent idea. Interactions can
>> be 'draft' until officially confirmed as and when evidence becomes
>> available. Here is a D3 example of what we could end up with (albeit very
>> conspiracy-theorist): http://www.whodotheyserve.com/****
>>
>> From a data perspective, what we need is:****
>>
>> **·         **Entity (person or organisation)****
>>
>> **·         **Interaction (shareholder-in, partner-with, contract-with,
>> employee-of, colleague-with, friend-of etc.)****
>>
>> **o    **This should include some sort of basis: link or document.****
>>
>> **·         **Entity (person or organisation)****
>>
>> So we would end up with a interactions graph dataset. This could
>> initially be a google spread sheet or a simple db or wiki until it gets
>> large enough to warrant a NoSQL graph db.****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 11, 2013 at 10:26 AM, Thoko Madonko <thoko.madonko at gmail.com>
>> wrote:****
>>
>> Dear All****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> I am following the discussion with keen interest. Would there be a way to
>> start small - I am thinking given the health reform taking place in SA - a
>> 3d picture of who is connected to which medical scheme would be a great
>> start! ****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Let me know if you are keen. I am sure I can find some cash monies to
>> help do it. ****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Thoko****
>>
>>
>> ****
>>
>> *__________________________________________*****
>>
>> ****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> On 10 October 2013 14:55, Greg Kempe <gregkempe at gmail.com> wrote:****
>>
>> Charles, I agree, this would be very interesting. I've also thought of
>> doing something with the tender database.****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> But I think Adi is right: there's a lot of money to be made with that
>> data, and a lot of incentive for people to keep it hidden. The journoswould love it, the business owners less so, so there'd be some friction for
>> sure.****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Greg****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> On 10 October 2013 at 1:50:37 PM, Charles (chuckra at gmail.com<//chuckra at gmail.com>)
>> wrote:****
>>
>> For me, the biggest hit we can make in open data in SA is the companies
>> office. If you look at what the NZ govt<http://cat.open.org.nz/tag/companies/>,
>> for instance, has done, we have a long way to go. But I dream of being able
>> to show a dynamic D3 <http://d3js.org/> graph connecting all our
>> politicians to their family members and the companies in which they are
>> involved.****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> What are the chances of getting a nice REST service running at the CIPC<http://www.cipc.co.za/>,
>> where anyone can query. We’d give journalists a field day…****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> Charles****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> *From:* okfn-za-bounces at lists.okfn.org [mailto:
>> okfn-za-bounces at lists.okfn.org] *On Behalf Of* Robert Elliott
>> *Sent:* 09 October 2013 23:08
>> *To:* Adi Eyal
>> *Cc:* okfn-za at lists.okfn.org; hackshackers-johannesburg at googlegroups.com;
>> hackshackers-capetown at googlegroups.com; odadi at googlegroups.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [okfn-za] [HacksHackers Cape Town] Open Source in
>> Government****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> Saw this today: Department of Basic Education Bans Open Source****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>>
>> http://dkeats.com/index.php?action=viewsingle&module=blog&postid=gen21Srv8Nme0_40332_1381256759&userid=7050120123
>> ****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> And Delphi?!????!!****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> Shocker. ****
>>
>> —
>> Sent from Mailbox <https://www.dropbox.com/mailbox> for iPhone****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 4:19 PM, Adi Eyal <adi at burgercom.co.za> wrote:****
>>
>> Hi Niki
>>
>> On 5 August 2013 16:05, Niki Moore <nikimoore007 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > With reference to my previous reply.... I switched over to Linux a few
>> > months ago, and I am battling with it, it's not as easy as Microsoft and
>> > requires me to phone my support desk almost weekly to find out how to
>> > install programmes... and there are some of my appliances, like my
>> scanner,
>> > that do not support Linux. There is a scarcity of technical support for
>> > people who are not computer programmers who have gone onto Linux. I have
>> > just been having a chat with such a chap, who was telling me that as
>> the use
>> > of OSS increases, so companies are forced to offer support, but unless
>> you
>> > have some basic programming knowledge, Linux is extremely frustrating.
>> Can
>> > you imagine your average civil servant handling the programming
>> required to
>> > open source?
>>
>> I feel your pain. Funnily enough, I just bought a laptop which came
>> with Windows 8. I battled for about an hour trying to figure it out
>> and gave up in disgust. However, you're right, Linux is somewhat
>> difficult for non-techies. Having said that, my sexagenarian motherin
>> in law has been using Ubuntu for about a year now. She doesn't even
>> know that she's using it. I'm not trying to sell Linux on the desktop.
>> For most people used to Windows, it is a difficult switch. I find
>> MacOS difficult too, but it's mostly because it is a new interface.
>> Linux though is not the only open source system around. There is lot's
>> of software that is opensource which runs on Windows.
>>
>> More importantly, bespoke software should be written as open source -
>> there is no reason why software which is built specifically for a
>> government department should be kept closed. Once built, it should be
>> shareable with other departments with no fee (except for installation
>> and support).
>>
>> One last thing - I didn't mention why I thought that the open data
>> groups were a good avenue for this initiative. Open data by itself is
>> a technical area which doesn't interest most people. If we pair open
>> data with open government or active citizenry, we have a much more
>> powerful tool to change society. This project is an example of how
>> that can happen. Collecting data from government departments is the
>> first piece of the puzzle.
>>
>> Adi
>> >
>> >
>> > On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 3:55 PM, Adi Eyal <adi at burgercom.co.za> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> They refuse to response to my PAIA requests. They have an open data
>> >> policy - they also administer Microsoft licences valuing over a
>> >> R100,000,000. I would like policy documents translated to real action.
>> >>
>> >> Adi
>> >>
>> >> On 5 August 2013 15:44, Niki Moore <nikimoore007 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> > Why don't you ask the SITA? They announced in their congress last
>> year
>> >> > that
>> >> > they are moving to open-source, so they should have an idea of the
>> spend
>> >> > of
>> >> > each department.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 3:16 PM, Adi Eyal <adi at burgercom.co.za>
>> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Hi All
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I'm working on a personal project which these groups may find
>> >> >> interesting. I'd like to build a case for why moving government
>> >> >> departments to using open source software makes economic sense. I'm
>> >> >> doing this by laboriously contacting each government department and
>> >> >> asking them what software they use and how much they pay for it.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Yes I know - I may be a little idealistic and a touch naive, but I'm
>> >> >> not trying to argue the philosophical merits of why open source
>> >> >> software may be better than proprietary software.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> My logic is simply:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> If government spends Rx billion annually importing proprietary
>> >> >> software and they rather redirect that money to the local software
>> >> >> community for installation, customisation, support and hosting then
>> we
>> >> >> can create Y new jobs.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> It's a lot of work but hopefully I can convince a few more people to
>> >> >> help me. I have data from 5 departments so far with a total annual
>> >> >> spend of over R26m.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I would really appreciate your help. Collecting this information is
>> >> >> time consuming. I plan to collect information across all spheres of
>> >> >> government which you can imagine is a mammoth task. Any
>> contribution -
>> >> >> no matter how small would definitely ease the burden.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> If you want more information - have a look at this link:
>> >> >> https://github.com/adieyal/gov-software-audit
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Just one caveat - this project is not about complaining about
>> >> >> Microsoft or snide comments about whether government is useless,
>> >> >> inefficient or incompetent. I am an idealist and I prefer a naively
>> >> >> optimistic approach. Even if the project fails (and the odds are
>> >> >> against it), I think it is a worthwhile cause and will add another
>> >> >> voice to why this is a good thing.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Comments welcome.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Adi
>> >> >>
>> >> >> --
>> >> >> Adi Eyal
>> >> >> Data Specialist
>> >> >> phone: +27 78 014 2469
>> >> >> skype: adieyalcas
>> >> >> linkedin: http://za.linkedin.com/pub/dir/Adi/Eyal
>> >> >>
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>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > --
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>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Adi Eyal
>> >> Data Specialist
>> >> phone: +27 78 014 2469
>> >> skype: adieyalcas
>> >> linkedin: http://za.linkedin.com/pub/dir/Adi/Eyal
>> >>
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>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
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>> > 031 - 205-8331
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>>
>>
>> --
>> Adi Eyal
>> Data Specialist
>> phone: +27 78 014 2469
>> skype: adieyalcas
>> linkedin: http://za.linkedin.com/pub/dir/Adi/Eyal
>>
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>> ** **
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>>
>>
>>
>> -- ****
>>
>> <http://www.graphflow.com>****
>>
>> Robert Elliott | Co-founder****
>>
>> robert at graphflow.com | +27 71 882 4222 | @greenafrican<http://twitter.com/greenafrican>
>> ****
>>
>>
>> GraphFlow | Product, user and content recommendations
>> www.graphflow.com | @graphflow <http://twitter.com/graphflow>****
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