[okfn-za] [HacksHackers Jo'burg] Re: [HacksHackers Cape Town] Open Source in Government

Fri Oct 11 15:01:19 UTC 2013

Adopt a wikipedia type 'verification'. Ensure that interactions are backed
up with a reference and allow them to be challenged for a reference (like
"please investigate further").

On Fri, Oct 11, 2013 at 4:38 PM, Theresa Mallinson <
theresa.mallinson at gmail.com> wrote:

> I agree with Adi
>
> I wouldn't say more people voting for a link between people/companies
> makes it more "true", necessarily. Another way of doing this could be to
> have a vote for "please investigate this further", so that journos can
> crowdsource which potential connections the public is interested in knowing
> more about?
>
> Cheers
> Tea
>
>
>
> On 11 October 2013 12:20, Adi Eyal <adi at burgercom.co.za> wrote:
>
>> what about verification? How do you know that something is true?
>>
>> Adi
>>
>> Adi Eyal
>> Data Specialist
>> phone: +27 78 014 2469
>> skype: adieyalcas
>> linkedin: http://za.linkedin.com/pub/dir/Adi/Eyal
>>
>>
>>
>> On 11 October 2013 11:01, Charles <chuckra at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Robert****
>>>
>>> I think it would be worth considering going with the graph databases
>>> from the start – otherwise the day when we upload the first large chunk(the
>>> voters’ roll comes to mind J) will be a show-stopper until we pivot.
>>> But sure, SQL can work for prototypes, as long as you know you’ll be
>>> ditching it and rewriting…****
>>>
>>> ** **
>>>
>>> The other point is that a link between people/companies becomes more
>>> credible the more people “vote it” to be true. It just has to be good
>>> enough for a journo to follow up – so we should also plan for a
>>> “link-weight” parameter thingy.****
>>>
>>> ** **
>>>
>>> ** **
>>>
>>> C****
>>>
>>> ** **
>>>
>>> *From:* Robert Elliott [mailto:robert at graphflow.com]
>>> *Sent:* 11 October 2013 10:43
>>> *To:* Thoko Madonko
>>> *Cc:* Greg Kempe; Adi Eyal; Charles; okfn-za at lists.okfn.org;
>>> hackshackers-johannesburg; hackshackers-capetown; odadi
>>>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [okfn-za] [HacksHackers Cape Town] Open Source in
>>> Government****
>>>
>>> ** **
>>>
>>> I think 'crowdsourcing' the data is an excellent idea. Interactions can
>>> be 'draft' until officially confirmed as and when evidence becomes
>>> available. Here is a D3 example of what we could end up with (albeit very
>>> conspiracy-theorist): http://www.whodotheyserve.com/****
>>>
>>> From a data perspective, what we need is:****
>>>
>>> **·         **Entity (person or organisation)****
>>>
>>> **·         **Interaction (shareholder-in, partner-with, contract-with,
>>> employee-of, colleague-with, friend-of etc.)****
>>>
>>> **o    **This should include some sort of basis: link or document.****
>>>
>>> **·         **Entity (person or organisation)****
>>>
>>> So we would end up with a interactions graph dataset. This could
>>> initially be a google spread sheet or a simple db or wiki until it gets
>>> large enough to warrant a NoSQL graph db.****
>>>
>>> ** **
>>>
>>> On Fri, Oct 11, 2013 at 10:26 AM, Thoko Madonko <thoko.madonko at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:****
>>>
>>> Dear All****
>>>
>>> ** **
>>>
>>> I am following the discussion with keen interest. Would there be a way
>>> to start small - I am thinking given the health reform taking place in SA -
>>> a 3d picture of who is connected to which medical scheme would be a great
>>> start! ****
>>>
>>> ** **
>>>
>>> Let me know if you are keen. I am sure I can find some cash monies to
>>> help do it. ****
>>>
>>> ** **
>>>
>>> Thoko****
>>>
>>>
>>> ****
>>>
>>> *__________________________________________*****
>>>
>>> ****
>>>
>>> ** **
>>>
>>> ** **
>>>
>>> On 10 October 2013 14:55, Greg Kempe <gregkempe at gmail.com> wrote:****
>>>
>>> Charles, I agree, this would be very interesting. I've also thought of
>>> doing something with the tender database.****
>>>
>>> ** **
>>>
>>> But I think Adi is right: there's a lot of money to be made with that
>>> data, and a lot of incentive for people to keep it hidden. The journoswould love it, the business owners less so, so there'd be some friction for
>>> sure.****
>>>
>>> ** **
>>>
>>> Greg****
>>>
>>> ** **
>>>
>>> On 10 October 2013 at 1:50:37 PM, Charles (chuckra at gmail.com<//chuckra at gmail.com>)
>>> wrote:****
>>>
>>> For me, the biggest hit we can make in open data in SA is the companies
>>> office. If you look at what the NZ govt<http://cat.open.org.nz/tag/companies/>,
>>> for instance, has done, we have a long way to go. But I dream of being able
>>> to show a dynamic D3 <http://d3js.org/> graph connecting all our
>>> politicians to their family members and the companies in which they are
>>> involved.****
>>>
>>>  ****
>>>
>>> What are the chances of getting a nice REST service running at the CIPC<http://www.cipc.co.za/>,
>>> where anyone can query. We’d give journalists a field day…****
>>>
>>>  ****
>>>
>>> Charles****
>>>
>>>  ****
>>>
>>> *From:* okfn-za-bounces at lists.okfn.org [mailto:
>>> okfn-za-bounces at lists.okfn.org] *On Behalf Of* Robert Elliott
>>> *Sent:* 09 October 2013 23:08
>>> *To:* Adi Eyal
>>> *Cc:* okfn-za at lists.okfn.org; hackshackers-johannesburg at googlegroups.com;
>>> hackshackers-capetown at googlegroups.com; odadi at googlegroups.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [okfn-za] [HacksHackers Cape Town] Open Source in
>>> Government****
>>>
>>>  ****
>>>
>>> Saw this today: Department of Basic Education Bans Open Source****
>>>
>>>  ****
>>>
>>>
>>> http://dkeats.com/index.php?action=viewsingle&module=blog&postid=gen21Srv8Nme0_40332_1381256759&userid=7050120123
>>> ****
>>>
>>>  ****
>>>
>>> And Delphi?!????!!****
>>>
>>>  ****
>>>
>>> Shocker. ****
>>>
>>> —
>>> Sent from Mailbox <https://www.dropbox.com/mailbox> for iPhone****
>>>
>>>  ****
>>>
>>> On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 4:19 PM, Adi Eyal <adi at burgercom.co.za> wrote:***
>>> *
>>>
>>> Hi Niki
>>>
>>> On 5 August 2013 16:05, Niki Moore <nikimoore007 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > With reference to my previous reply.... I switched over to Linux a few
>>> > months ago, and I am battling with it, it's not as easy as Microsoft
>>> and
>>> > requires me to phone my support desk almost weekly to find out how to
>>> > install programmes... and there are some of my appliances, like my
>>> scanner,
>>> > that do not support Linux. There is a scarcity of technical support for
>>> > people who are not computer programmers who have gone onto Linux. I
>>> have
>>> > just been having a chat with such a chap, who was telling me that as
>>> the use
>>> > of OSS increases, so companies are forced to offer support, but unless
>>> you
>>> > have some basic programming knowledge, Linux is extremely frustrating.
>>> Can
>>> > you imagine your average civil servant handling the programming
>>> required to
>>> > open source?
>>>
>>> I feel your pain. Funnily enough, I just bought a laptop which came
>>> with Windows 8. I battled for about an hour trying to figure it out
>>> and gave up in disgust. However, you're right, Linux is somewhat
>>> difficult for non-techies. Having said that, my sexagenarian motherin
>>> in law has been using Ubuntu for about a year now. She doesn't even
>>> know that she's using it. I'm not trying to sell Linux on the desktop.
>>> For most people used to Windows, it is a difficult switch. I find
>>> MacOS difficult too, but it's mostly because it is a new interface.
>>> Linux though is not the only open source system around. There is lot's
>>> of software that is opensource which runs on Windows.
>>>
>>> More importantly, bespoke software should be written as open source -
>>> there is no reason why software which is built specifically for a
>>> government department should be kept closed. Once built, it should be
>>> shareable with other departments with no fee (except for installation
>>> and support).
>>>
>>> One last thing - I didn't mention why I thought that the open data
>>> groups were a good avenue for this initiative. Open data by itself is
>>> a technical area which doesn't interest most people. If we pair open
>>> data with open government or active citizenry, we have a much more
>>> powerful tool to change society. This project is an example of how
>>> that can happen. Collecting data from government departments is the
>>> first piece of the puzzle.
>>>
>>> Adi
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 3:55 PM, Adi Eyal <adi at burgercom.co.za> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> They refuse to response to my PAIA requests. They have an open data
>>> >> policy - they also administer Microsoft licences valuing over a
>>> >> R100,000,000. I would like policy documents translated to real action.
>>> >>
>>> >> Adi
>>> >>
>>> >> On 5 August 2013 15:44, Niki Moore <nikimoore007 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >> > Why don't you ask the SITA? They announced in their congress last
>>> year
>>> >> > that
>>> >> > they are moving to open-source, so they should have an idea of the
>>> spend
>>> >> > of
>>> >> > each department.
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> > On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 3:16 PM, Adi Eyal <adi at burgercom.co.za>
>>> wrote:
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Hi All
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> I'm working on a personal project which these groups may find
>>> >> >> interesting. I'd like to build a case for why moving government
>>> >> >> departments to using open source software makes economic sense. I'm
>>> >> >> doing this by laboriously contacting each government department and
>>> >> >> asking them what software they use and how much they pay for it.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Yes I know - I may be a little idealistic and a touch naive, but
>>> I'm
>>> >> >> not trying to argue the philosophical merits of why open source
>>> >> >> software may be better than proprietary software.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> My logic is simply:
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> If government spends Rx billion annually importing proprietary
>>> >> >> software and they rather redirect that money to the local software
>>> >> >> community for installation, customisation, support and hosting
>>> then we
>>> >> >> can create Y new jobs.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> It's a lot of work but hopefully I can convince a few more people
>>> to
>>> >> >> help me. I have data from 5 departments so far with a total annual
>>> >> >> spend of over R26m.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> I would really appreciate your help. Collecting this information is
>>> >> >> time consuming. I plan to collect information across all spheres of
>>> >> >> government which you can imagine is a mammoth task. Any
>>> contribution -
>>> >> >> no matter how small would definitely ease the burden.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> If you want more information - have a look at this link:
>>> >> >> https://github.com/adieyal/gov-software-audit
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Just one caveat - this project is not about complaining about
>>> >> >> Microsoft or snide comments about whether government is useless,
>>> >> >> inefficient or incompetent. I am an idealist and I prefer a naively
>>> >> >> optimistic approach. Even if the project fails (and the odds are
>>> >> >> against it), I think it is a worthwhile cause and will add another
>>> >> >> voice to why this is a good thing.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Comments welcome.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Adi
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> --
>>> >> >> Adi Eyal
>>> >> >> Data Specialist
>>> >> >> phone: +27 78 014 2469
>>> >> >> skype: adieyalcas
>>> >> >> linkedin: http://za.linkedin.com/pub/dir/Adi/Eyal
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> --
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>>> >> >>
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>>> .
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> > --
>>> >> > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
>>> >> > 7th Avenue Communications
>>> >> > 031 - 205-8331
>>> >> > 083 - 758-4483
>>> >> >
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>>> .
>>> >> >
>>> >> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> --
>>> >> Adi Eyal
>>> >> Data Specialist
>>> >> phone: +27 78 014 2469
>>> >> skype: adieyalcas
>>> >> linkedin: http://za.linkedin.com/pub/dir/Adi/Eyal
>>> >>
>>> >> --
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>>> .
>>> >>
>>> >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
>>> > 7th Avenue Communications
>>> > 031 - 205-8331
>>> > 083 - 758-4483
>>> >
>>> > --
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>>> > To view this discussion on the web, visit
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>>> .
>>> >
>>> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Adi Eyal
>>> Data Specialist
>>> phone: +27 78 014 2469
>>> skype: adieyalcas
>>> linkedin: http://za.linkedin.com/pub/dir/Adi/Eyal
>>>
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>>> ** **
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -- ****
>>>
>>> <http://www.graphflow.com>****
>>>
>>> Robert Elliott | Co-founder****
>>>
>>> robert at graphflow.com | +27 71 882 4222 | @greenafrican<http://twitter.com/greenafrican>
>>> ****
>>>
>>>
>>> GraphFlow | Product, user and content recommendations
>>> www.graphflow.com | @graphflow <http://twitter.com/graphflow>****
>>>
>>> ** **
>>>
>>
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>
>

-- 
<http://www.graphflow.com>
Robert Elliott | Co-founder
robert at graphflow.com | +27 71 882 4222 |
@greenafrican<http://twitter.com/greenafrican>

GraphFlow | Product, user and content recommendations
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