[Open-data-census] Wrong number of countries in the Census

Fri Oct 31 22:41:40 UTC 2014

On 31 October 2014 17:19, Pierre Chrzanowski <pierre.chrzanowski at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Thanks Christian,
>
> but the FAQ says this: "Each year the open data community and Open
> Knowledge produces an annual ranking of countries."
>

As the project has grown we have started to realise that it's not that easy
to define what is and is not a country, and started using 'place' instead.
This has not yet been consistently applied, as you found out. I understand
now why even many big international organisations sometimes try to avoid
the word 'country'..

> and, I think, most of us consider the Open Data Index as the ranking for
> country level.
>
> I understand that choosing one of the definitions over others can lead to
> polemical discussions but, at the opposite, if I follow your rule of thumb,
> I open the Index to every jurisdiction in this world.
>

I would say it depends on whether or not the key datasets about that
jurisdiction is covered by the country/nation/place/self-governing entity
they are part of, or not.

> My point is that we need to keep some coherency for comparison purposes
> and that not all places are at country level.
>

The comparison argument is a good one, and we certainly want to keep the
conversation open on what the best rule-of-thumb would be to assess what
places we should and should not consider. While still making sure that
contributors who are keen find their way to contribute the data they care
about.

> For instance, if we allow Guadeloupe or Martinique, which are integral
> part of France, to be in the census, then we should also open the Index
> to all the 101 French departments which are administrated exactly the
> same way.
>
> And I am not making any political judgement here ;)
>

Thanks for sharing how this would work for Guadeloupe and Martinique
Pierre. It reminds me of a video
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNu8XDBSn10> that explains the UK and the
status of all of its territories [1]. There is a similar one for my home
country, the Netherlands <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eE_IUPInEuc> [2].
As you can see there, it will be difficult to fit the status of many
places, often former colonies, in a single coherent definition. France is
possibly more consistently organised than other countries. Although I'm not
sure about eg. Saint-Martin?

Maybe a good question to ask, is whether the key datasets that we assess
include the data of Guadeloupe and Martinique. Eg. are they part of the
National map? Do they use the same postal codes system?

Thanks,

Sander

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNu8XDBSn10
[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eE_IUPInEuc

>
> Best
> Pierre
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> On Fri Oct 31 2014 at 4:21:37 PM Christian Villum <villum at autofunk.dk>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Pierre,
>>
>> We are actually not referring to any list of countries (as they per
>> definition will always be politically sensitive), and that is why we are
>> referring to entries as 'places' rather than 'countries'. As a rule of
>> thumb, if a geographic area ("place") has any level of independence or/and
>> self-governance, and - of course - data being made available, then it could
>> be relevant for inclusion. Above all, however, is the necessity of someone
>> in that given place to want to work on that place. It's a grey zone of
>> course, but we do not want to make political judgements on sovereignty.
>>
>> For the Index 2014 presentation we'll likely cut out some countries if
>> there are no submissions. This is not because of lack of recognition of
>> those countries, but simply because there have been no one in that place to
>> submit or review datasets.
>>
>> -Christian
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 11:58 AM, Pierre Chrzanowski <
>> pierre.chrzanowski at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi, I just noticed the global.census.okfn.org website lists 250
>>> countries, which is way higher than most of official list of states (UN has
>>> 193 members).
>>>
>>> For instance Guadeloupe and Martinique are French départements, and as
>>> such, should be included in the French results.
>>>
>>> Best
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> open-data-census mailing list
>>> open-data-census at lists.okfn.org
>>> https://lists.okfn.org/mailman/listinfo/open-data-census
>>>
>>>
>>
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-- 

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