[Open-education] Open Government Data: Helping Parents to find the Best School for their Kids
Marieke Guy
marieke.guy at okfn.org
Wed Jun 4 14:58:34 UTC 2014
Hi Pat,
Hmmm....
"The elitism comes in when the data says this school is better, and to
come to this school you need to buy a 200,000 pound house. Tie that into
knowing your school isn't very good and something like declaration
theory (if you think you're going to fail, you're more likely to fail)
then the openness is counter-intuitive. "
I'm confused here. So the other option is not knowing that certain
schools are better than your local school? Surely knowing about the
situation can lead to change? Maybe your argument is about
self-fulfilling prophecies? I have children in the UK school system and
am well aware that there are no easy answers.
However open data can make for positive change. As Ottavio says "open
education data helps a qualified debate by different actors that
otherwise would not have access to this information restricted to school
burocreacies"
I think Ottavio's questions are very pertinent:
Data - "But how they can be used to promote equity ? How they can be
used to advance learning ? How they can be used to foster more
collaboration within school clusters instead of more competition ? The
data is there and how it can be used to defend these agendas?"
These are what matter to those of us interested in open data.
Exploration around these is where the potential lays.
Thanks
Marieke
On 04/06/2014 15:38, Pat Lockley wrote:
> Quoting
>
> "Enabling parents to make choices about schools seems to me to be a
> good thing. We are not just talking about better academic schools but
> more appropriate schools (ones that support particular student needs
> with regard to academic ability, special needs, religion, disability,
> possible vocation etc.) I totally understand that league tables have
> in the past caused hysteria, but much of this is to do with media
> interpretation. Surely more data and more eyes on that data can bring
> us a more objective perspective. Data is not elitist, it is a tool.
> The elitism element comes in when people cannot interpret that data or
> have access to it. This means more tools to aid data interpretation,
> more training in data skills and more open data. Opening up data is to
> me an essential part of opening up education."
>
> The elitism comes in when the data says this school is better, and to
> come to this school you need to buy a 200,000 pound house. Tie that
> into knowing your school isn't very good and something like
> declaration theory (if you think you're going to fail, you're more
> likely to fail) then the openness is counter-intuitive.
>
> The reliance on many eyes, or many people, or civic action is also
> based on people having the time to do it. If you have the time to use
> the data, or can pay someone to do it for you, then you can benefit
> from it.
>
> If the public policy was "all data open" then that's fine, but it
> isn't applied holistically, or consistently. Schools have league
> tables, but not say Army Battalions, Bus Drivers, trade missions, bank
> binus data, etc (and the chance it isn't without bias and that some of
> those biases aren't political is really slim). Voting as change is
> convenient if you think the lib dems stood for tripling tuition fees,
> it took an FOI request to access the Rothschild report on loan book
> selling (open?) and given the current system is costing more than the
> old system - it is likely openness is not going to easily happen with
> this data.
>
> Contrast with an OER, everyone can, crudely, access it should they so
> with (with chronological implications above respected too). That is,
> to me, a very different thing.
>
> I think what lacks from most openness is a sense almost of something
> akin to jurisprudence in how openness is developed as a concept. There
> is a quote from Blackstone about the law - "those entering a system
> surrender some liberty in doing so", and it seems innately openness
> isn't win win for everyone. Question then is how you reduce the
> negative impact of it.
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 2:54 PM, Marieke Guy <marieke.guy at okfn.org
> <mailto:marieke.guy at okfn.org>> wrote:
>
> Hi Pat and Terry,
>
> Thanks for your contributions here. They've given me a lot of food
> for thought and I will look in to some of the points you make in
> more detail when I have time.
>
> For example Terry - your post on schools being locked shut is a
> good resource for the Friday Chat question I posted last week 'Is
> traditional education not open?' - maybe I'll repost on Friday ;-)
>
> Anyway I just wanted to share my gut reaction to your comments
> about this particular use of open data in education.
>
> Terry says: "*Surely, surely open education should be about far
> more than just using performance data to try to get our kids into
> a better school than our less well informed neighbours.*"
>
> And my answer to this would be: *Yes, yes it is, and there is so
> much more we can do with it, but open data is by it's very nature
> open and available for people to use in anyway they see fit. This
> is one interesting approach with huge amounts of potential.*
>
> The open definition states (and this is referenced in the handbook).
> "A piece of data or content is open if anyone is free to use,
> reuse, and redistribute it --- subject only, at most, to the
> requirement to attribute and/or share-alike."
>
> This then means it can be used for good, and for bad, and for
> commercial exploitation.
>
> Enabling parents to make choices about schools seems to me to be a
> good thing. We are not just talking about better academic schools
> but more appropriate schools (ones that support particular student
> needs with regard to academic ability, special needs, religion,
> disability, possible vocation etc.) I totally understand that
> league tables have in the past caused hysteria, but much of this
> is to do with media interpretation. Surely more data and more eyes
> on that data can bring us a more objective perspective. Data is
> not elitist, it is a tool. The elitism element comes in when
> people cannot interpret that data or have access to it. This means
> more tools to aid data interpretation, more training in data
> skills and more open data. Opening up data is to me an essential
> part of opening up education.
>
> You might find it interesting to read about what other countries
> such as Holland
> <http://education.okfn.org/open-education-holland/> and Tanzania
> <http://education.okfn.org/open-education-tanzania/> are doing in
> this area.
>
> In UK (where I am based) the ODI Data Challenge
> <https://hackpad.com/Education-Open-Data-Challenge-kLW3ZeR98lj#>
> mentioned by Ed has supported the development of some really great
> apps built on open education data. The expression 'the best thing
> to done with your data will be thought of by someone else'
> certainly holds true here.
>
> So, to use one of my personal much overused phrases, "all
> possibilities still exist"!
>
> The matter of marketisation of learning is something for another
> day, but for me it's a shifting area, especially when you think
> about countries outside the global south.
>
> Anyway thanks again for your comments. Always great to hear.
>
> Marieke
>
> On 04/06/2014 12:47, Pat Lockley wrote:
>> hear hear
>>
>> And this is what I was going to say re Friday's chat. To me a lot
>> of the open data / open access arguments around openness are a
>> lot more neo-liberal / neo-con. So when we say traditional
>> education, do we mean before league tables? Or before licensing?
>> Or before openness?
>>
>> As an experiment, contrast our "Open" (if that thing exists) with
>> Corporate Openness (say
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piercing_the_corporate_veil) and
>> then perhaps tie this to citzens united and the openness of
>> lobbying organisations.
>>
>> Paraphrasing this quote "The society which scorns excellence in
>> plumbing as a humble activity and tolerates shoddiness in
>> philosophy because it is an exalted activity will have neither
>> good plumbing nor good philosophy: neither its pipes nor its
>> theories will hold water."
>>
>> Because if we have a public openness and then allow a corporate
>> "closed" then the benefit of the openness looks to me like it is
>> lost, or worst, has the negative outcomes you'd expect to have
>> once neo-liberal competition kicks in.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 10:27 AM, Terry Loane <terryloane at aol.com
>> <mailto:terryloane at aol.com>> wrote:
>>
>> For me there is a huge irony here.
>>
>> The very concept of open education is surely that people
>> should be "free to use, reuse, and redistribute [resources]"
>> (to quote from:
>> http://booktype.okfn.org/open-education-handbook/_draft/_v/1.0/what-is-open/)
>> Now this is the very opposite of a market approach to
>> distributing goods and services. Marketisation of learning
>> runs counter to open education because it is has to involve
>> an assumption of privilege for those who access a particular
>> resource/institution, which by definition will be scarce
>> (e.g. an expensive textbook or an over-subscribed school.)
>> The first paragraph of the quotation from Radu Cucos is a
>> text-book, neo-liberal rationale for the market approach to
>> schooling:
>>
>> "Each country has its own school market, if education is
>> considered as a product in this market. Perfect information
>> about products is one of the main characteristics of
>> competitive markets. From this perspective, giving parents
>> the opportunity to have access to information about schools
>> characteristics will contribute to the increase in the
>> competitiveness of the schools market. Educational
>> institutions will have incentives to improve their
>> performance in order to attract more students."
>>
>> Do we really believe that the idea of using 'open data' to
>> ensure that our kids attend a better school than the ones
>> next door who do not have access to such data is what open
>> education should be about? Do we really believe the last
>> sentence of the above quotation: "Educational institutions
>> will have incentives to improve their performance in order to
>> attract more students"? (The evidence in the UK is that
>> publication and fetishizing of league tables can have a
>> detrimental effect on learning because it focuses the
>> attention of the institution on improving performance data
>> rather than providing the best for each individual child.)
>>
>> I am also struck by the irony of using 'open data' to choose
>> a school, because schools are such 'closed' institutions, in
>> just about every sense of the word -- I have blogged bout
>> this recently here:
>> http://terryloane.typepad.com/reallylearn/2014/03/why-are-schools-locked-shut-most-of-the-time.html
>>
>> Surely, surely open education should be about far more than
>> just using performance data to try to get our kids into a
>> better school than our less well informed neighbours.
>>
>> Terry Loane
>>
>> On 03/06/2014 16:02, Marieke Guy wrote:
>>> There is a great post on the Open Government Partnership
>>> blog about using open government data to help parents find
>>> the best school.
>>> http://www.opengovpartnership.org/blog/radu-cucos/2014/06/03/open-government-data-helping-parents-find-best-school-their-kids
>>>
>>> The post, by Radu Cucos from Moldova, lists several apps
>>> from different countries that have been built on government
>>> data related to education and education institutions. I'll
>>> be adding these to the Open Education Handbook
>>> <http://booktype.okfn.org/open-education-handbook/_draft/_v/1.0/open-data-use-cases/>.
>>>
>>> He concludes by saying:
>>>
>>> "Open data on schools has great value not only for parents
>>> but also for the educational system in general. Each country
>>> has its own school market, if education is considered as a
>>> product in this market. Perfect information about products
>>> is one of the main characteristics of competitive markets.
>>> From this perspective, giving parents the opportunity to
>>> have access to information about schools characteristics
>>> will contribute to the increase in the competitiveness of
>>> the schools market. Educational institutions will have
>>> incentives to improve their performance in order to attract
>>> more students.
>>>
>>> While adopting the Open Data Initiative policy in the
>>> education field has advantages for everybody -- parents,
>>> schools and state authorities, it falls to governments to
>>> take the leading role in promoting Open Data. First of all,
>>> governments have to make sure that data on schools is being
>>> publicly released and regularly updated. Second, state
>>> institutions have to incentivize developers to create
>>> innovative apps. Third, governments have to increase demand
>>> for educational apps by raising awareness, lowering the
>>> costs for Open Data apps accessibility and decreasing the
>>> costs of accessing additional sources and information about
>>> schools."
>>>
>>> I'd be interested in hearing more about this from a country
>>> perspective. Anyone got any interesting use cases to share?
>>>
>>> We plan to have a community session on 'What has open data
>>> got to do with education' during June - details to follow.
>>>
>>> Marieke
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Marieke Guy
>>> LinkedUp <http://linkedup-project.eu/> Project Community
>>> Coordinator | skype: mariekeguy | tel: 44 (0) 1285 885681 |
>>> @mariekeguy <http://twitter.com/mariekeguy>
>>> The Open Knowledge <http://okfn.org/>
>>> /Empowering through Open Knowledge/
>>> http://okfn.org/ | @okfn <http://twitter.com/okfn>| OKF on
>>> Facebook | Blog | Newsletter
>>> http://remoteworker.wordpress.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> open-education mailing list
>>> open-education at lists.okfn.org <mailto:open-education at lists.okfn.org>
>>> https://lists.okfn.org/mailman/listinfo/open-education
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> open-education mailing list
>> open-education at lists.okfn.org
>> <mailto:open-education at lists.okfn.org>
>> https://lists.okfn.org/mailman/listinfo/open-education
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> open-education mailing list
>> open-education at lists.okfn.org <mailto:open-education at lists.okfn.org>
>> https://lists.okfn.org/mailman/listinfo/open-education
>
>
> --
>
> Marieke Guy
> LinkedUp <http://linkedup-project.eu/> Project Community
> Coordinator | skype: mariekeguy | tel: 44 (0) 1285 885681 |
> @mariekeguy <http://twitter.com/mariekeguy>
> Open Knowledge <http://okfn.org/>
> /Empowering through Open Knowledge/
> http://okfn.org/ | @okfn <http://twitter.com/okfn>| OKF on
> Facebook | Blog | Newsletter
> http://remoteworker.wordpress.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> open-education mailing list
> open-education at lists.okfn.org <mailto:open-education at lists.okfn.org>
> https://lists.okfn.org/mailman/listinfo/open-education
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> open-education mailing list
> open-education at lists.okfn.org
> https://lists.okfn.org/mailman/listinfo/open-education
--
Marieke Guy
LinkedUp <http://linkedup-project.eu/> Project Community Coordinator |
skype: mariekeguy | tel: 44 (0) 1285 885681 | @mariekeguy
<http://twitter.com/mariekeguy>
Open Knowledge <http://okfn.org/>
/Empowering through Open Knowledge/
http://okfn.org/ | @okfn <http://twitter.com/okfn>| OKF on Facebook
<%3Fhttps://www.facebook.com/OKFNetwork%3F> | Blog
<%3Fhttp://blog.okfn.org%3F> | Newsletter
<%3Fhttp://okfn.org/about/newsletter/%3F>
http://remoteworker.wordpress.com
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.okfn.org/pipermail/open-education/attachments/20140604/5c3c48f0/attachment-0003.html>
More information about the open-education
mailing list