[open-government] ODG Manual
Josh Tauberer
tauberer at govtrack.us
Fri Oct 22 00:30:00 UTC 2010
Hey, guys.
I'm glad to see continued interest in refining what OGD means, but I
think this conversation is tackling too much at once. If I were to write
more about OGD, here are some of the questions I would be thinking
about, and each one could be a whole document:
About an OGD Itself:
What are the shortcomings of the existing (and first to coin) "8
Principles" definition of OGD? One that comes to mind is "license free"
which while well accepted in the US is not well accepted anywhere else.
What is required to be laid on top of the OKD to make it "OGD"? What are
the higher standards we hold government to above the more general OKD?
What are the different ways countries are dealing with licensing and cost?
Implementation:
What technical (etc.) choices should a govvie make to comply with OGD?
Example cases.
How do you evaluate compliance?
I've written a little bit about these issues in my "civic capital"
monograph, but there's more to say.
- Josh Tauberer
- CivicImpulse / GovTrack.us
http://razor.occams.info | www.govtrack.us | civicimpulse.com
"Members of both sides are reminded not to use guests of the
House as props."
On 10/21/2010 12:25 PM, Javier Ruiz Diaz wrote:
> Actually
>
> Looking properly at the OGD manual draft.... It states the intended
> audience is basically everyone from government to activists, but the
> actual text is really a guide for governments wishing to open up data.
> The "you" throughout the text is a civil servant or politician.
>
> This is a very necessary work and the manual is great from that
> perspective. However, if citizen groups, information activists or
> campaigners want to open up data and make use of it, they cannot
> identify with the manual. They might find the information useful but not
> directed at them.
> I would propose to rename the existing OD manual and create a new one
> coming from the other end of demand/users/citizens. Obviously a lot
> would be rehashed, but the whole dialogue would be different.
>
> Another option would be to label sections in a single manual but this
> may be more complicated.
>
> At Open Rights Group we would be happy to contribute as part of our
> campaign on Open Data. We can start discussions during the camp and can
> dedicate some time in December.
>
> best, Javier
>
>
> On 21 Oct 2010, at 16:32, Javier Ruiz Diaz wrote:
>
>> Tim
>>
>> very well put. Whatever is agreed during the conference in terms of
>> OGD definition, this should be part of the OGD manual.
>>
>>
>> Javi
>>
>>
>> On 21 Oct 2010, at 15:06, Brian Gryth wrote:
>>
>>> Tim,
>>> Good points. Technological penetration is a topic of import to this
>>> discussion and open government in general. It is an issue in the
>>> developing world, but also in parts of the developed world. There are
>>> parts of the United States that have no to limited board band access.
>>> The infrastructure just does not exist. In addition, there are local
>>> governments in the United States that do not have digitized records
>>> and very limited IT infrastructure. (Helping these communities move
>>> to an electronic world is one of the long term goals of the
>>> opencolorado.org <http://opencolorado.org/> project I am part of in
>>> the US). So in short, thankfully one of us was thinking outside of
>>> the Web access box.
>>> Also I see your point on the non-commercial access/use license. But I
>>> wonder if applicable copyright law would already allow such use
>>> independent of a license? It seems that the educational type use you
>>> contemplate would fall within the fair use doctrine (at least in the
>>> United States). However, I should stop there because I am not a
>>> copyright attorney and anything I said would be speculative and could
>>> not be reasonably relied upon.
>>> That being said. Addressing the non-commercial idea maybe worth
>>> considering. It is always best to eliminate risk of infringement. So
>>> perhaps the approach should be something like meeting the full
>>> definition is best, but if you just can't get there the
>>> guidelines/principles/framework should encourage state entities to
>>> release the data under a more limited non-commercial use license. I
>>> suppose I am getting at your suggested five star model.
>>> Thanks every one for the great discussion. Hopefully I can actually
>>> find time to revise the draft definition started by Jonathan in the
>>> next couple of days.
>>> Thanks,
>>> Brian Peltola Gryth
>>> twitter.com/briangryth <http://twitter.com/briangryth>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 2:18 AM, Tim Davies <tim at timdavies.org.uk
>>> <mailto:tim at timdavies.org.uk>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello Brian, all
>>>
>>> Two quick questions/thoughts:
>>>
>>> - On non-commercial
>>>
>>> Brian said: "One other point, I see no value in excluding
>>> commercial use of government data. Very good services have been
>>> create using government data. For instance, weather and GPS data.
>>> A license that precludes the commercial use of government
>>> information is of little use beyond the academy and think tanks."
>>>
>>> The other significant group missing from that list of 'academy
>>> and think thanks' is wider citizen groups & civil society. There
>>> are many possible uses of open government data for holding states
>>> to account; for scrutinising local services; for improving local
>>> provision; etc. which can occur without rights to commercial data
>>> use. These are often direct uses of government data (e.g. finding
>>> out a key fact about local planning; comparing statistics for
>>> your area against others when lobbying local politicians) rather
>>> than 're-uses' which do require greater latitude in licensing.
>>>
>>> These democratically focussed and non-commercial uses may only
>>> constitute 10% of the total possible uses of OGD when commercial
>>> use is permitted. However, they are significant in their own
>>> right: which is why I've suggested that there may be
>>> justifications for some acknowledgement of non-commercial data as
>>> 'open within a limited sense' (clearly not 'fully open' which
>>> requires no restrictions on re-use).
>>>
>>> So 'fully open data' should allow commercial use; but there is a
>>> form of democratic openness which doesn't require commercial
>>> re-use rights, and that surely has some place in an open
>>> government data definition?
>>>
>>>
>>> - On global applicability and technology-specificity.
>>>
>>> Comparing to the open science definition: if we're looking
>>> towards globally applicable principles / definitions - how far
>>> should those be internet-centric? Whilst Internet penetration is
>>> rapidly rising, I can imagine many contexts in which the most
>>> practical sharing of open data may still use physical media
>>> (practically working with data tends to require fairly high
>>> bandwidth environments).
>>>
>>> The open science definition focusses only on data being
>>> internet-accessible: which should be part of the base-line of any
>>> definition; and it's fairly reasonable (although not entirely) to
>>> assume the science community have access to adequate bandwidth
>>> Internet connections (and there is no in-principle obligation on
>>> the scientist in one country to ensure a scientist in another
>>> country has the resources to access the scientific data they have
>>> published). However, when it comes to state data, published in
>>> part on the basis of citizen-rights to that data, there may be a
>>> greater responsibility on the state to ensure citizens have
>>> effective access to the data published - which might mean
>>> thinking about other (additional & complementary) routes to
>>> making data available.
>>>
>>> (N.B. I'm not suggesting that such routes should be explicit in a
>>> definition or principles. Rather that if definition/principles
>>> want global applicability then such definition/principles need to
>>> be sensitive to (a) differences in technology diffusion across
>>> the world; and (b) sensitive to future changes in technology that
>>> might render terms obsolete (only really an issue for a
>>> definition - principles are easier to 'update' over time without
>>> complications).
>>>
>>> All the best
>>>
>>> Tim
>>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 4:33 AM, Brian Gryth
>>> <briangryth at gmail.com <mailto:briangryth at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Jonathan and Tim,
>>>
>>> ....
>>> Furthermore, Jonathan you point us to the science definition,
>>> which states,
>>> "By open data in science we mean that it is freely available
>>> on the public Internet permitting any user to download, copy,
>>> analyse, re-process, pass them to software or use them for
>>> any other purpose without financial, legal, or technical
>>> barriers other than those inseparable from gaining access to
>>> the Internet itself. To this end data related to published
>>> science should be explicitly placed in the public domain."
>>> With the exception of the public domain bit, I think this
>>> definition would work in the government space. Public domain
>>> licensing would be to exclusive, even if preferred. If we can
>>> get government to release data under the least restrictive
>>> license possible that would be ideal.
>>>
>>>
>>> One
>>>
>>> More illustrative of what we need are recommended principles
>>> for government, like those of Panton Principles,
>>> http://pantonprinciples.org/.
>>> The principles outline thus far are a starting point, (i.e.
>>> license/legal, technical/format, social). I am concerned that
>>> we are creating a definition that will dissuaded rather that
>>> encourage. Let us not create a box so restrictive that only
>>> but a few can get into.
>>>
>>> One other point, I see no value in excluding commercial use
>>> of government data. Very good services have been create using
>>> government data. For instance, weather and GPS data. A
>>> license that precludes the commercial use of government
>>> information is of little use beyond the academy and think tanks.
>>>
>>> Again these thought are my opinion and I may be miss guided.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Brian Peltola Gryth
>>> twitter.com/briangryth <http://twitter.com/briangryth>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 3:24 AM, Jonathan Gray
>>> <jonathan.gray at okfn.org <mailto:jonathan.gray at okfn.org>> wrote:
>>>
>>> On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 8:39 AM, Tim Davies
>>> <tim at timdavies.org.uk <mailto:tim at timdavies.org.uk>> wrote:
>>> > Hello all,
>>> >
>>> > This is a really useful discussion. Some thoughts below...
>>> > On the question of a definition
>>> > I'm sceptical about the value of a solid-line
>>> definition which says some
>>> > things are in - some things are out - when it comes to
>>> open government data.
>>>
>>> That would be exactly what the definition would be. ;-)
>>>
>>> Like F/OSS definitions. About baseline compliance. I
>>> think that part
>>> of the value here would be in being able to say you must
>>> do X and Y
>>> *at a bare minimum* to make sure your stuff (government
>>> data) is open.
>>>
>>> > The Open Definition already provides a solid definition
>>> of a particular
>>> > notion of openness - and at most a short FAQ on how
>>> this applies to
>>> > government data should cover providing a sense of a
>>> gold-standard for
>>> > something being 'formally' open.
>>>
>>> Exactly, but it is isn't yet widely adopted as a
>>> standard. I hope in
>>> this discussion we can draw out any domain specific
>>> points/assumptions/etc. A bit like the Panton Principles
>>> build on
>>> opendefinition.org <http://opendefinition.org/> for science:
>>>
>>> http://pantonprinciples.org/
>>>
>>> > Models like the 'Five Stars of Open Linked Data'
>>> >
>>> (http://inkdroid.org/journal/2010/06/04/the-5-stars-of-open-linked-data/)
>>> > are far more useful in both helping people assess their
>>> current openness,
>>> > and providing a motivational structure for making data
>>> available.
>>> > An adapted version of the 5-stars, talking about
>>> licenses in place of
>>> > linked-data etc., and adding a 'social openness' step
>>> at the end may be one
>>> > route to a definition.
>>>
>>> Hmm.. I would almost be tempted to say we should separate
>>> this into:
>>>
>>> (i) are we talking about 'open government data' or not?
>>> (definition/standard)
>>> (ii) are we doing this *well* -- e.g. is it connected to
>>> other
>>> resources, are we doing 'social stuff', is there good
>>> documentation,
>>> etc. (principles/guidelines/star ratings)
>>>
>>> > A good definition for the end-user should be able to be
>>> re-formulated into a
>>> > set of questions, such as:
>>> >
>>> > (License) Is your data published under a license that
>>> allows it to be
>>> > re-used by anyone, or placed into the public domain so
>>> there are no
>>> > restrictions on re-use?
>>> >
>>> > (Format) Is your data accessible to humans and machines
>>> in a structured way?
>>> > (As a good rule of thumb, if it's possible for a
>>> re-user to take a copy of
>>> > your data, load it into standard software, and edit
>>> that copy easily, it's
>>> > machine-readable).
>>> >
>>> > (Social) Have you worked to ensure that citizens and
>>> other potential
>>> > re-users of your data have access to the additional
>>> information, tools and
>>> > resources that they would need to make effective use of
>>> your data?
>>> >
>>> > Social openness
>>> > The last point there is my attempt at some sort of
>>> social openness clause.
>>> > Clearly it isn't unambiguous (what's 'effective', or
>>> enough effort in
>>> > 'working to ensure'?) but it tries to capture what
>>> might be the steps
>>> > governments (and wider communities are encouraged to
>>> take) to ensure the
>>> > data is usable and used in practice.
>>> > The practical openness of any dataset is not a property
>>> only of that
>>> > dataset, but also of the tools-chains available; access
>>> to knowledge and
>>> > skills; access to meta-data; etc. - and government
>>> clearly has a role to
>>> > play in promoting access to and development of those
>>> resources - but the
>>> > responsibility is shared with civil society / citizens
>>> / communities /
>>> > business.
>>>
>>> Fully agree that social stuff is important -- this is
>>> mostly what I work on. ;-)
>>>
>>> At the same time I can't help think it might be useful to
>>> pick out
>>> properties of the data for certain practical purposes. If
>>> government
>>> doesn't do certain things (adding correct metadata,
>>> connect with other
>>> data sources, allow commenting, ...) then others (like
>>> mySociety,
>>> OpenlyLocal, Sunlight Foundation) can possibly do it. If
>>> its not under
>>> an open license, then legally speaking, no-one can do it.
>>> If a dataset
>>> is in a weird format but under an open license, then
>>> someone can
>>> convert it to something more useful (like numerous people
>>> have done
>>> with COINS or Eurostat).
>>>
>>> I guess the main danger about having a definition that is
>>> too basic
>>> and sparse is that we lower expectations -- and people
>>> think once they
>>> comply with the definition (e.g. once that they have done
>>> the legal
>>> and technical stuff) that is enough, and they don't need
>>> to do
>>> anything else. I guess my feeling is that this is a
>>> question of
>>> strategy, and we should work to build a culture (in
>>> advocacy, in
>>> policy making) where its clear that this often isn't
>>> enough (e.g. with
>>> talks, manuals, guidance, websites, ...). This also
>>> applies to things
>>> like funding prototypes, to having data registries and so
>>> on. There
>>> isn't a universally applicable recipe to getting things
>>> right, but we
>>> can certainly provide guidance and instruction based on
>>> evidence/experience from around the world.
>>>
>>> I think the main danger not having a definition is that
>>> people will
>>> start applying the term 'open government data' to
>>> material with
>>> restrictive terms of use, or to services where material
>>> is only
>>> available via an API (e.g. with limited number of
>>> queries, or onerous
>>> contractual obligations or registration procedures).
>>>
>>> Finding a path (or at least plotting several possible
>>> paths) between
>>> Scylla and Charybdis is exactly what I'd like to try to
>>> achieve in
>>> this discussion. ;-)
>>>
>>> > The one point in here which might be slightly separate,
>>> around providing
>>> > 'additional information' (in practice, meta-data and
>>> guides/handbooks
>>> > etc.).
>>> > Would a separate meta-data term of the 'definition' be
>>> useful?
>>> > Different sorts of openness: commercial and civic?
>>> > I'm sure it's a debate that's been over many times, and
>>> one it seems OKF
>>> > have a fairly settled position on - but I do think it's
>>> worth the
>>> > distinction between: 'civic openness' and 'commercial
>>> openness' being made -
>>> > particularly for the broadest possible use of a definition.
>>> > If a government does not wish to make data available
>>> for commercial re-use,
>>> > but accepts free access to machine-readable data for
>>> citizens to use in
>>> > non-commercial ways - that has significant potential
>>> benefits for democracy
>>> > - and should be recognised as an open data policy;
>>> albeit only providing
>>> > 'civic/democratic openness' and clearly shown to fail
>>> on 'commercial
>>> > openness'.
>>>
>>> Hmm, I'm *really* not convinced that we should call
>>> material released
>>> under non-commercial licenses 'open government data'.
>>> That doesn't
>>> mean it isn't valuable or important!
>>>
>>> What do we gain by counting NC stuff as open government data?
>>> Recognition for civil servants who have run up against
>>> 'insurmountable' internal barriers? What do we lose? Its
>>> much harder
>>> to convince people to move to non-NC licenses from NC
>>> licenses if they
>>> are convinced that both are fully open. This is really
>>> important for
>>> an interoperable data commons (e.g. combining things with
>>> Wikipedia,
>>> Open Street Map, etc). Otherwise we have a two tier
>>> eco-system: one
>>> tier for commercial operators and one for everyone else.
>>> Also if
>>> companies have to pay for data licenses for 'open
>>> government data' are
>>> they going to be inclined to share back their
>>> modifications with
>>> everyone else? Suspect this could have some pretty
>>> undesirable
>>> consequences for the open data 'ecosystem' down the line.
>>>
>>> > Of course - this moves from single unified definition
>>> more towards
>>> > 'framework' - but, as above, my sense is that
>>> definitional frameworks,
>>> > rather than exclusionary definitions, are a better
>>> route to go...
>>> > Other points
>>> > One other point that might have a place in a framework
>>> would be around
>>> > 'Making Connections'. Perhaps (connected) is the top of
>>> a five-stars of open
>>> > government data?
>>> >
>>> > (Connecting Data to Information) When you publish
>>> information (charts /
>>> > tables / reports) based on your data, do you provide a
>>> clear link back to
>>> > the original data, and any other information re-users
>>> would need to
>>> > understand how the information was generated?
>>> >
>>> > (Drawing
>>> > on
>>> http://practicalparticipation.co.uk/odi/report/2010/2-3-data-and-information/)
>>> >
>>> > (Connecting Data) Do you use linked-data approaches to
>>> make connections
>>> > between your data and other datasets.
>>> >
>>> > Hope these are useful inputs...
>>>
>>> Yes -- finding this discussion really useful. In
>>> particular we should
>>> articulate why we want a definition in the first place.
>>> Added notes
>>> for a preamble:
>>>
>>> http://opengovernmentdata.okfnpad.org/definition
>>>
>>> > All the best
>>> > Tim
>>> > -
>>> >
>>> > +44 (0)7834 856 303
>>> > @timdavies
>>> > http://www.timdavies.org.uk <http://www.timdavies.org.uk/>
>>> >
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> open-government at lists.okfn.org <mailto:open-government at lists.okfn.org>
>>> http://lists.okfn.org/mailman/listinfo/open-government
>>
>
>
>
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