No subject

Sun Mar 31 09:34:23 UTC 2013

would have more impact than just the OASPA group post, as only researchers
interested in this specific topic will read about it.

Just to give you an idea, I originally found the link to the National
Geographic article in a web about general news, in other words: that
article was read by lots of people getting the impression that OA journals
are bad.

I guess that a letter from all the groups I mentioned, saying why that
article is not fair, it would help to get awareness of the problem and make
a clear point about what is the position of these open science groups
regarding this topic. Additionally I guess it could reach a lot of people
and open the discussion, due to it will be a letter answering the Economist
article, and signed by three main players, well known and respected by the
world.

Cheers,

Daniel

On Mon, Oct 7, 2013 at 10:55 PM, Tom Olijhoek <tom.olijhoek at gmail.com>wrote=
:

> I apologize for having send my  message meant for the list  to Klaus only
> and not to the list,
> Still I think that this discussion has become nasty by calling me a liar.=
I
> do not accept this kind treatment.
> The science of the Hoax sucks, and if you do not agree, come with
> scientific arguments
> But you do not accept criticism apparently by writing:  stop lying, End O=
f
> Discussion
>
>
>  ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Tom Olijhoek <tom.olijhoek at gmail.com>
> Date: Mon, Oct 7, 2013 at 5:21 PM
> Subject: Re: [open-science] Fake Cancer study published in 157 Open Acces=
s
> Journals
> To: Klaus Graf <klausgraf at googlemail.com>
>
>
> Dear Klaus,
>
> Please read the reactions by Peter Suber, Michael Eisen and Mike Taylor.
> It is not a question of not accepting critics, it is a question of not
> accepting bad science, wrong conclusions and generalisations
> The studied group of journals was a non-randomly selected group of OA
> journals where 30 % was based in India and 121 / 304 were known predatory
> journals. It was not at all representative of the group of 10,000+  open
> access journals that exist.Small wonder that  in  the  result many of tho=
se
> journals turned out to be bogus....
> Apart from that in the selected group the journals that published the
> largest nr of articles did very well
>
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 4, 2013 at 3:57 PM, Klaus Graf <klausgraf at googlemail.com>wrot=
e:
>
>> 2013/10/4 Egon Willighagen <egon.willighagen at gmail.com>
>>
>>> On Fri, Oct 4, 2013 at 3:19 PM, Klaus Graf <klausgraf at googlemail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> > I cannot see what is FUD if an article clearly demonstrates serious
>>> problems
>>> > of gold OA.
>>>
>>> No, you are wrong there, I'm sorry. The problems are there, but with
>>> peer review, as the title of the article clearly writes. Worse too, is
>>> that some publishers (or better: editorial boards) that do not do
>>> their work.lay down the cause-effect which the paper does not
>>>
>>> show, and only suggests. That is called FUD.
>>>
>>
>> YOU are wrong here. If more than half of the tested OA journals accept
>> fake science then it is playing down to speak of "some" publishers. As I
>> said: siege mentality which doesn't accept critics.
>>
>> Klaus Graf
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> open-science mailing list
>> open-science at lists.okfn.org
>> http://lists.okfn.org/mailman/listinfo/open-science
>> Unsubscribe: http://lists.okfn.org/mailman/options/open-science
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Tom Olijhoek
> Codex Consult
> www.codexconsult.eu
> coordinator @ccess open access working group  at OKF
> DOAJ  member of Advisory Board
> freelance advisor for the WorldBank Publishing Group
> TEL +(31)645540804
> SKYPE tom.olijhoek
> LinkedIn  http://nl.linkedin.com/in/tomolijhoek/
>
>
>
>
> --
> Tom Olijhoek
> Codex Consult
> www.codexconsult.eu
> coordinator @ccess open access working group  at OKF
> DOAJ  member of Advisory Board
> freelance advisor for the WorldBank Publishing Group
> TEL +(31)645540804
> SKYPE tom.olijhoek
> LinkedIn  http://nl.linkedin.com/in/tomolijhoek/
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> open-science mailing list
> open-science at lists.okfn.org
> http://lists.okfn.org/mailman/listinfo/open-science
> Unsubscribe: http://lists.okfn.org/mailman/options/open-science
>
>

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=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=
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Please do NOT use proprietary file formats to share files
like DOC or XLS, instead use PDF, HTML, RTF, TXT, CSV or
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=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=
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=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7
Por favor, NO utilice formatos de archivo propietarios para el
intercambio de documentos, como DOC y XLS, sino PDF, HTML, RTF, TXT, CSV
o cualquier otro que no obligue a utilizar un programa de un
fabricante concreto para tratar la informaci=C3=B3n contenida en =C3=A9l.
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--001a1135e27ee2794c04e8354655
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div><div>Hi,<br><br></div>I like the idea proposed f=
rom Francois. A joint message from OKF science group, <a href=3D"https://wi=
ki.mozilla.org/ScienceLab">Mozilla Science Lab </a>and <a href=3D"http://cr=
eativecommons.org/science">Creative Commons Science</a> about this topic re=
garding the Economist article would be very valuable in my opinion. <br>

<br>From my point of view, it would send the right message, and I guess it =
would have more impact than just the OASPA group post, as only researchers =
interested in this specific topic will read about it. <br><br>Just to give =
you an idea, I originally found the link to the National Geographic article=
 in a web about general news, in other words: that article was read by lots=
 of people getting the impression that OA journals are bad.<br>

<br></div>I guess that a letter from all the groups I mentioned, saying why=
 that article is not fair, it would help to get awareness of the problem an=
d make a clear point about what is the position of these open science group=
s regarding this topic. Additionally I guess it could reach a lot of people=
 and open the discussion, due to it will be a letter answering the Economis=
t article, and signed by three main players, well known and respected by th=
e world.<br>

<br></div>Cheers,<br><br>Daniel<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br=
><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Oct 7, 2013 at 10:55 PM, Tom Olijhoek <=
span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:tom.olijhoek at gmail.com" target=3D"_b=
lank">tom.olijhoek at gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>

<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">I apologize for having send=
 my =C2=A0message meant for the list =C2=A0to Klaus only and not to the lis=
t,<div>Still I think that this discussion has become nasty by calling me a =
liar.I do not accept this kind treatment.</div>

<div>The science of the Hoax sucks, and if you do not agree, come with scie=
ntific arguments</div><div>But you do not accept criticism apparently by wr=
iting: =C2=A0stop lying, End Of Discussion</div><div><br><br><div class=3D"=
gmail_quote">

<div class=3D"im">

---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: <b class=3D"gmail_senderna=
me">Tom Olijhoek</b> <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:tom.olijhoek at g=
mail.com" target=3D"_blank">tom.olijhoek at gmail.com</a>&gt;</span><br>Date: =
Mon, Oct 7, 2013 at 5:21 PM<br>

Subject: Re: [open-science] Fake Cancer study published in 157 Open Access =
Journals<br></div>To: Klaus Graf &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:klausgraf at googlemail=
.com" target=3D"_blank">klausgraf at googlemail.com</a>&gt;<br><br><br><div di=
r=3D"ltr">

Dear Klaus,<div>

<br></div><div>Please read the reactions by Peter Suber, Michael Eisen and =
Mike Taylor.</div><div>It is not a question of not accepting critics, it is=
 a question of not accepting bad science, wrong conclusions and generalisat=
ions=C2=A0</div>

<div>The studied group of journals was a non-randomly selected group of OA =
journals where 30 % was based in India and 121 / 304 were known predatory j=
ournals. It was not at all representative of the group of 10,000+ =C2=A0ope=
n access journals that exist.Small wonder that =C2=A0in =C2=A0the =C2=A0res=
ult many of those journals turned out to be bogus....</div>

<div>Apart from that in the selected group the journals that published the =
largest nr of articles did very well</div><div><br></div></div><div class=
=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div><div class=3D"h5">=
<div>

<div>On Fri, Oct 4, 2013 at 3:57 PM, Klaus Graf <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:klausgraf at googlemail.com" target=3D"_blank">klausgraf at googlema=
il.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>

</div></div></div></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0=
 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div class=3D"h=
5"><div><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmai=
l_quote">

2013/10/4 Egon Willighagen <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:egon.wil=
lighagen at gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">egon.willighagen at gmail.com</a>&gt;</s=
pan><br>

<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div>
<div>On Fri, Oct 4, 2013 at 3:19 PM, Klaus Graf &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:klaus=
graf at googlemail.com" target=3D"_blank">klausgraf at googlemail.com</a>&gt; wro=
te:<br>
&gt; I cannot see what is FUD if an article clearly demonstrates serious pr=
oblems<br>
&gt; of gold OA.<br>
<br>
</div>No, you are wrong there, I&#39;m sorry. The problems are there, but w=
ith<br>
peer review, as the title of the article clearly writes. Worse too, is<br>
that some publishers (or better: editorial boards) that do not do<br></div>
their work.lay down the cause-effect which the paper does not<div><br>
show, and only suggests. That is called FUD.<br></div></blockquote><div><br=
></div><div>YOU are wrong here. If more than half of the tested OA journals=
 accept fake science then it is playing down to speak of &quot;some&quot; p=
ublishers. As I said: siege mentality which doesn&#39;t accept critics.<spa=
n><font color=3D"#888888"><br>

<br></font></span></div><span><font color=3D"#888888"><div>Klaus Graf =C2=
=A0 <br></div></font></span></div></div></div>
<br></div></div></div></div><div class=3D"im"><div>________________________=
_______________________<br>
open-science mailing list<br>
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ce at lists.okfn.org</a><br>
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blank">http://lists.okfn.org/mailman/listinfo/open-science</a><br>
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<br></div></div></blockquote></div><span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#8=
88888"><span><font color=3D"#888888"><br><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-=
- <br><div>Tom Olijhoek<br>Codex Consult</div><div><a href=3D"http://www.co=
dexconsult.eu" target=3D"_blank">www.codexconsult.eu</a></div>

<div>coordinator @ccess open access working group =C2=A0at OKF</div>
<div>DOAJ =C2=A0member of Advisory Board</div><div>freelance advisor for th=
e WorldBank Publishing Group</div><div>TEL <a href=3D"tel:%2B%2831%29645540=
804" value=3D"+31645540804" target=3D"_blank">+(31)645540804</a></div><div>=
SKYPE tom.olijhoek</div>

<div>LinkedIn =C2=A0<a href=3D"http://nl.linkedin.com/in/tomolijhoek/" targ=
et=3D"_blank">http://nl.linkedin.com/in/tomolijhoek/</a></div>
<div><br></div>
</font></span></font></span></div><span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#88=
8888">
</font></span></div><span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><br><br =
clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div>Tom Olijhoek<br>Codex Consult</div=
><div><a href=3D"http://www.codexconsult.eu" target=3D"_blank">www.codexcon=
sult.eu</a></div>

<div>coordinator @ccess open access working group =C2=A0at OKF</div>

<div>DOAJ =C2=A0member of Advisory Board</div><div>freelance advisor for th=
e WorldBank Publishing Group</div><div>TEL <a href=3D"tel:%2B%2831%29645540=
804" value=3D"+31645540804" target=3D"_blank">+(31)645540804</a></div><div>=
SKYPE tom.olijhoek</div>

<div>LinkedIn =C2=A0<a href=3D"http://nl.linkedin.com/in/tomolijhoek/" targ=
et=3D"_blank">http://nl.linkedin.com/in/tomolijhoek/</a></div>

<div><br></div>
</font></span></div></div>
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<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr"><d=
iv><a href=3D"http://daniellombrana.es" target=3D"_blank">http://daniellomb=
rana.es</a><br><a href=3D"http://citizencyberscience.net" target=3D"_blank"=
>http://citizencyberscience.net</a><br>

</div><a href=3D"http://www.shuttleworthfoundation.org/fellows/daniel-lombr=
ana/" target=3D"_blank">http://www.shuttleworthfoundation.org/fellows/danie=
l-lombrana/</a><br><div>=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=
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=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=
=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=
=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=
=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=
=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=
=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=
=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=
=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=
=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=
=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7<br>

Please do NOT use proprietary file formats to share files<br>like DOC or XL=
S, instead use PDF, HTML, RTF, TXT, CSV or<br>any other format that does no=
t impose on the user the employment<br>of any specific software to work wit=
h the information inside the files.<br>

=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=
=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=
=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=
=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=
=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=
=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=
=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=
=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=
=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=
=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=
=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=
=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=
=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7<br>Por favor, NO utilice formatos de archivo propi=
etarios para el<br>

intercambio de documentos, como DOC y XLS, sino PDF, HTML, RTF, TXT, CSV<br=
>o cualquier otro que no obligue a utilizar un programa de un<br>fabricante=
 concreto para tratar la informaci=C3=B3n contenida en =C3=A9l.<br>=C2=B7=
=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=
=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=
=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=
=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=
=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=
=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=
=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=
=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=
=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=
=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=
=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=
=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7=
=C2=B7=C2=B7=C2=B7</div>

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