[OpenSpending] [OKFN-NL] €278bn through shell companies in Netherlands

Fri Jun 21 08:31:49 UTC 2013

Hi Karen,

Was more referring to " 'blocking' of an IP address seems like a downright
hostile reaction". No offense taken, just thought it seemed an unwarranted
case of projecting a unsupported motive on someone else's actions.

best,
Ton

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Interdependent Thoughts
Ton Zijlstra

ton at tonzijlstra.eu
+31-6-34489360

http://zylstra.org/blog

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On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 11:35 PM, <k.brzezinska at xs4all.nl> wrote:

> If you are referring to my statement that they are not bound by
> governmental rules of nicety, I wasn't referring (in that particular
> point) to the KVK, but to those involved in trusts aimed at avoiding
> taxation of large sums of money.
>
> My excuses for the lack of clarity, and for any offense,
>
> Cheers, K.
>
>
> On Thu, June 20, 2013 23:25, Ton Zijlstra wrote:
> > That seems an overblown characterisation of the KvK and their actions or
> > lack thereof.
> > Op 20 jun. 2013 23:04 schreef <k.brzezinska at xs4all.nl> het volgende:
> >
> >> dear OKFN-ers, and other friends,
> >>
> >> Hi its Karen.
> >>
> >> Okay, I have spoken to my pal in the US. He says the SEC won't have info
> >> abt those companies unless they have a US branch or operations. One
> >> would
> >> have to go at it state by state, to find which companies are registered.
> >>
> >> However, I have now just done a google search of "trusts Netherlands"
> >> and
> >> came up with a disquieting list of possibilities.
> >>
> >> I will attach a screen shot because it gave me the willies.
> >>
> >> Before we go any further, i would like to point out that 'blocking' of
> >> an
> >> IP address seems like a downright hostile reaction. My question, have
> >> any
> >> scrapers tried scraping from a TOR address (or similar) to avoid being
> >> blocked?
> >>
> >> I'd also like to point out that people who are used to secreting their
> >> info about billions of currency units aren't known for being mild
> >> mannered. Just FYI. If we are looking at money that's being laundered,
> >> or
> >> 'merely' evading taxation, we are not going to be popular. And these
> >> folks
> >> are not bound by the laws of governmental courtesy, if you get my drift.
> >>
> >> Having been married for some time to someone who represented monied
> >> criminals (and who ended up drifting in that direction himself) I can
> >> say:
> >> we should keep our eyes open when dealing with these matters.
> >>
> >> Finally, is there an OKFN protocol? Were I to call these offices,
> >> looking
> >> for info, do I say I'm a journalist working with the OKFN/ Open Spending
> >> project? (I"m sure that would get them to open right up...!) ;-)
> >>
> >> kind regards,
> >>
> >> Karen Brzezinska (Amsterdam)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Got it.
> >>
> >> On Thu, June 20, 2013 20:50, Jonathan Gray wrote:
> >> > Hey Karen,
> >> >
> >> > Very interesting indeed. Out of interest where are you based?
> >> >
> >> > By following up on the list, I mean:
> >> >
> >> > 1. Signing up to the OKFN Netherlands and OpenSpending mailing lists
> >> here:
> >> >
> >> > http://lists.okfn.org/mailman/listinfo/openspending
> >> > http://lists.okfn.org/mailman/listinfo/okfn-nl
> >> >
> >> > (I assume that you are on at least one of these in order to have seen
> >> my
> >> > initial message)
> >> >
> >> > 2. Replying to my initial email (which you replied to just to me and
> >> > others
> >> > to our individual addresses), copying in openspending at lists.okfn.org
> >> and
> >> > okfn-nl at lists.okfn.org. This means that the people on those two lists
> >> will
> >> > see your reply, which will enable us to have a broader conversation,
> >> and
> >> > for other people to contribute and to get involved!
> >> >
> >> > Looking forward to hearing from you!
> >> >
> >> > All the best,
> >> >
> >> > Jonathan
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On 20 June 2013 20:43, <k.brzezinska at xs4all.nl> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> I really don't mean to laugh. When I worked at the newswires, the
> >> >> mythological 'openness' of the Dutch government, so very pro-business
> >> >> and
> >> >> pro-secrecy, was an open joke. So it comes as no surprise. One of my
> >> >> favorite memories from that period was when the CEO of one of the
> >> >> bourse-listed Dutch companies said, in response to a question about
> >> >> pricing agreements and the possible violation of EU directives by
> >> such
> >> >> agreements, responded: We like orderly markets. What's wrong with
> >> that?
> >> >>
> >> >> ;-) Uh, gee, nothing.
> >> >>
> >> >> Getting back to you: I must admit i don't really understand what you
> >> >> mean
> >> >> by
> >> >> following up on the list, much as i'd like to do it. Can you send me
> >> a
> >> >> link that would explain it to me, if you haven't got the
> >> >> time/inclination
> >> >> to do so yourself? I learn these things quickly, but the past months
> >> >> have
> >> >> been absorbed by legal matters, a trip to Kenya and taking on some
> >> >> considerable responsibilities at a neighbourhood tv project. Did I
> >> >> mention
> >> >> DIY-aggro at home? That too. Just the tiniest bit of handholding at
> >> this
> >> >> point will yield great benefits, I promise.
> >> >>
> >> >> Cheers, K.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> On Thu, June 20, 2013 19:16, Jonathan Gray wrote:
> >> >%3
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> OKFN-NL mailing list
> >> OKFN-NL at lists.okfn.org
> >> http://lists.okfn.org/mailman/listinfo/okfn-nl
> >> Unsubscribe: http://lists.okfn.org/mailman/options/okfn-nl
> >>
> >
>
>
>
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