[OpenSpending] XBRL for Local Government Financial Reporting

Thu Sep 5 16:09:05 UTC 2013

I agree Friedrich. It always comes back to the data model, doesn't it?

Cheers,
Steve

On Thu, Sep 5, 2013 at 10:58 AM, Friedrich Lindenberg <
friedrich.lindenberg at okfn.org> wrote:

> Hey Marc,
>
> this is very interesting to see XBRL being picked up, but I have to say
> that I'm critical of its use for non balance-sheet data [1]. XBRL is
> basically a massive framework in which any type of data could be expressed
> (it seems very committee-run), but the benefits really aren't clear to me.
>
> You can have well-documented CSV or JSON, too - and for those formats
> there is tooling which is useable by journalists and other end-users who do
> not have the means to start a 3 year XBRL implementation effort. In the
> end, releasing government data as XBRL could mean that only solutions from
> large companies like IBM or SAP would be able to invest the effort
> necessary to interpret the data.
>
> Of course it would be nice to have a standard, but this one is so large
> and ambiguous, I can't see it being useful in a technical sense.
>
> Cheers,
>
> - Friedrich
>
>
> [1] http://openspending.org/resources/gift/chapter4-2.html
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 4, 2013 at 8:38 PM, Marc Joffe <marc at publicsectorcredit.org>wrote:
>
>> Concha****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Thanks for these questions. ****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Like PDFs, XBRL files can either be published or kept confidential.  The
>> use of XBRL by itself is not a guarantee of transparency.  However, a
>> publicly available machine readable file is better than a publicly
>> available PDF, since it is easier to process.  In the world of machine
>> readable files, I see XBRL as better than CSV because XBRL tags allow for
>> more complete self-documentation of the data, especially if it the data is
>> complex.****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> I don’t know how many Spanish cities actually file in XBRL format.  I
>> thought the fact that they had a fairly well developed site (at
>> http://www.e-local.es/index.html ) indicated a substantial investment
>> and perhaps substantial compliance.  On the other hand, I am not seeing
>> recent updates.****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> I see some Spanish local government statistics here:
>> http://www.minhap.gob.es/EN-GB/ESTADISTICA%20E%20INFORMES/Paginas/estadisticaseinformes.aspx.
>> Have you see this before?****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Regards,****
>>
>> Marc****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> *From:* openspending-bounces at lists.okfn.org [mailto:
>> openspending-bounces at lists.okfn.org] *On Behalf Of *Conchita Catalan
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 04, 2013 3:38 PM
>> *To:* openspending at lists.okfn.org
>>
>> *Subject:* [OpenSpending] XBRL for Local Government Financial Reporting**
>> **
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Hello Marc, ****
>>
>> Thank you for sending the article. It says ****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> "In Spain, the *local government ministry encourages*<http://www.e-local.es/index.html> more
>> than *16,000 municipalities and agencies*<http://hitachidatainteractive.com/2011/02/09/xbrl-developments-in-spain-2011/> to
>> submit required budget reports in XBRL format. "****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> From a journalist's point of view, I've been trying to find more info
>> about this and xbrl format seems to be successfully used by private
>> companies. I have to add that that info is not public (no Freedom of
>> Information Law in Spain yet), although you can request it at a Registry
>> and obtain it for an expensive fee .  ****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> But is there any data or evidence that local governments are using it to
>> submit their reports, or have they just been encouraged?  Do you know
>> whether using this format in other countries implies that reports will be
>> accessible to the general public? Can you help me find this info?****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Thanks a lot, ****
>>
>> Concha Catalan ****
>>
>>
>> --
>> Visita mi blog: http://barcelonalittleshell.blogspot.com.es/****
>>
>> Visita opengov.cat****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>>
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2013 08:50:33 -0700
>> From: "Marc Joffe" <marc at publicsectorcredit.org>
>> Subject: [OpenSpending] XBRL for Local Government Financial Reporting
>> To: "'OpenSpending Discussion List'" <openspending at lists.okfn.org>
>> Message-ID: <016c01cea986$7d906550$78b12ff0$@publicsectorcredit.org>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> A financial industry opinion site carries my case for using XBRL
>> (eXtensible
>> Business Reporting Language) in the US municipal bond market. European
>> readers may be interested in the example of Spain using XBRL for its local
>> government financial reporting.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> http://tabbforum.com/opinions/the-case-for-muni-xbrl-bringing-municipal-fina
>> ncial-disclosure-into-the-21st-century<http://tabbforum.com/opinions/the-case-for-muni-xbrl-bringing-municipal-financial-disclosure-into-the-21st-century>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -------------- next part --------------
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> URL: <
>> http://lists.okfn.org/pipermail/openspending/attachments/20130904/79d68148/attachment.htm
>> >
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> openspending mailing list
>> openspending at lists.okfn.org
>> http://lists.okfn.org/mailman/listinfo/openspending
>> Unsubscribe: http://lists.okfn.org/mailman/optionss/openspending
>>
>>
>> End of openspending Digest, Vol 45, Issue 6
>> ***********************************************
>>
>>
>>
>> ****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> openspending mailing list
>> openspending at lists.okfn.org
>> http://lists.okfn.org/mailman/listinfo/openspending
>> Unsubscribe: http://lists.okfn.org/mailman/options/openspending
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> openspending mailing list
> openspending at lists.okfn.org
> http://lists.okfn.org/mailman/listinfo/openspending
> Unsubscribe: http://lists.okfn.org/mailman/options/openspending
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.okfn.org/pipermail/openspending/attachments/20130905/37e3a36c/attachment.html>