[wsfii-discuss] Confusion on Hive and Spontaneous Networking.

Thu Jul 13 11:49:31 UTC 2006

mmmm, ok. So yes, I was just introducing confusion by using the name 
hive (in the bio-metaphor way, I'm a mid-sixties guy xD) and by simply 
underlying "spontaneous networking" will help to better understand the 
concept. And spontaneous networking is a new one :)
If by hive networking is understood just as some devices which are 
capable of changing its firmware and must have a given number of network 
interfaces, that definitely doesn't matches very well with what we are 
trying to communicate with the SNP.

To refer to a given place where someone wants to startup a local 
community and the problematic of vertebrating it, solving the critical 
mass problems etc, we still can call it community.
For the concept of a single all wi-fi interconnected network at a medium 
to large-scale (I mean, larger than a single AP-wLan), I've also heard 
the word "Wireless Island"

Many thanks to all, I appreciate.
Ramon.

En/na Armin Medosch ha escrit:
> On 13 Jul 06, at 14:20, Ramon Roca wrote:
>
>   
>> mmm, interesting, I like the concept of "Hivewares" as sensors in 
>> Pervasive Computing where are able to easily do certain things, but 
>> thinking on this... but well, even an "acme" webcam can broadcast video 
>> over ip and does it out-of-the-box. The only difference I can see with a 
>> specialized firmware is that could be open-source or more flexible? 
>> Can't the acme webcam become part of a hive?
>>     
>
> if you can re-programme it to do other things and if it has two 
> network interfaces, yes.
> but let me say something else, the guys who are doing hive networks 
> are my friends and I admire their skills and commitment. however, I 
> find the name unfortunate. biological metaphors are so mid-nineties. 
> then these concepts came out of MIT and such places and there was 
> and is a certain ideology connected to it, like: hive networks, where 
> science of complexity meets neo-liberalism. only read Out of Control 
> by Kevin Kelly to see what I mean. I hope the free community can 
> come up with better slogans, better names and not somehow 
> replicate what the think tanks of swarm capitalism have already 
> proposed
> best
> Armin
>
>   
>> Anyway, to build the hive, besides of the specialized capability hidding 
>> complexity, which is always good, the "hivegadgets" have to publish 
>> their capabilities over the network because if not, they are really not 
>> available to the network participants or either to other "hivegadgets" 
>> if is M2M. In today's world that doesn't occurs so I think that this 
>> answer can only come complemented by the appropiate XML interfaces and 
>> the Spontaneous Data Hubs and Services... without this I can't imagine a 
>> single magic firmware totally autonomous doing all the things unless we 
>> reduce the concept of the hive to a single firmware-centric implementation.
>>
>> I assume that a "hiveware" can also be a mapping server which assembles 
>> the hive OpenGIS GML information (http://www.opengis.net/gml/) with a 
>> backround map provided by an external public WFS Server ( 
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_Feature_Service ) to display the hive 
>> over a geography... and that has few relationship with a given firmware...
>>
>> I'll keep on this way. IMHO rather than being contradictory, I'm  just 
>> filling gaps.
>>
>> Thx for keeping me updated. Just let me know if you think that could be 
>> better to stop me of using this terminology.
>>
>>
>> En/na Armin Medosch ha escrit:
>>     
>>> Hi Ramon,
>>>
>>> I like the questions which you are addressing, they are important 
>>> ones. My thoughts went into a similar direction when I wrote this text 
>>> about hive networks about 9 months ago. 
>>>
>>> http://theoriebild.ung.at/view/Main/HiveNetworks
>>>
>>> The more critical parts come at the end. there are no 'solutions' or 
>>> easy fixes but maybe there are interesting questions and boring 
>>> questions to ask. 
>>>
>>> I took quite some care to make the text accessible to geeks and non-
>>> geeks alike. however, technology has once more overtaken the slow 
>>> process of reflection. hive networkers have meanwhile began the 
>>> switch from Oleg's firmware to OpenWRT which should make it 
>>> easier for more developers to join in. A new hive wiki with better 
>>> documentation is under development but as far as I know has not yet 
>>> been opend for public participation. I will keep you posted
>>>
>>> best
>>> Armin
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 13 Jul 06, at 10:39, Ramon Roca wrote:
>>>
>>>   
>>>       
>>>> As I said the other day, I dumped many things which were on my brain, 
>>>> taking lessons on our experiences and visions about the Spontaneous 
>>>> Networking.
>>>> Now is time to think twice on that, discussion, better elaborate some 
>>>> concepts. The goal is to make it clear, if not, you know, just more 
>>>> smoke on the field.
>>>>
>>>> Please I will appreciate comments on the following. By googling saw 
>>>> "hive networks" I've got the impression that some of the people related 
>>>> to wsfii (Julian, etc...) have been using this vocabulary earlier. I 
>>>> just want to be consistent and not provide more confusion if there are 
>>>> already some adopted definitions.
>>>>
>>>> The real goal must be helping en everyone's projects roadmap, certainly 
>>>> at least does in what we're doing at guifi, so help us to evolve the 
>>>> concepts we've working on in the last months.
>>>>
>>>> I'm sorry, but I saw the expression "hive networking" just two days ago. 
>>>> Since that I was thinking on that expression because might help a lot in 
>>>> defining some of the concepts we need to describe for vertebrating 
>>>> networks. A "hive" could mean something which provides robustness to the 
>>>> local communities, solving density and critical mass problems, I mean, 
>>>> Spontaneous Networking is not only about scalability, more than this is 
>>>> about the ability to supply resources to the new "hives" in order to 
>>>> give them more chances for survival when they are in their critical 
>>>> path, and as long as they mature and get established, create new paths 
>>>> for creating new ones to boost enhance the others. That is a concept, 
>>>> and said in this way, very complementary to the spontaneous networking.
>>>>
>>>> But by googling "hive networks" I just have discovered that in this case 
>>>> is not a new concept and some of you have already worked on this. There 
>>>> is also a wiki site hivenetworks.net! But by my first (diagonal) look 
>>>> into this, I'm not sure that the term is being used in the same way as 
>>>> understanding it. I.e. at hivenetworks.net I've got the impression that 
>>>> after talking about a very abstract concept ("hive blobs"), goes 
>>>> straight to talk about a very "gadget" oriented things (firmwares, 
>>>> packages, etc....). Gadgets for sure are needed, are basic! However I 
>>>> don't see what's really new on this, there is just a need to keep going 
>>>> on with them and getting better, we might have dozens now and we might 
>>>> have hundreds in the future, some could get unsused, new ones might 
>>>> appear...
>>>>
>>>> So I miss something there. The hive/spontaneous approach have to be 
>>>> something else than just describing resources, is also about enabling 
>>>> the capabilities to them for spontaneously working together, that is 
>>>> building the hive. For sure anything pluggable into an IP network is 
>>>> already by definition able to extend something, but by having just that, 
>>>> isn't that only about just networking in general? what about solving the 
>>>> critical mass problems and building the hives?
>>>>
>>>> Comments welcome :)
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> wsfii-discuss mailing list
>>>> wsfii-discuss at lists.okfn.org
>>>> http://lists.okfn.org/mailman/listinfo/wsfii-discuss
>>>>
>>>>     
>>>>         
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> wsfii-discuss mailing list
>>> wsfii-discuss at lists.okfn.org
>>> http://lists.okfn.org/mailman/listinfo/wsfii-discuss
>>>
>>>
>>>   
>>>       
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> wsfii-discuss mailing list
> wsfii-discuss at lists.okfn.org
> http://lists.okfn.org/mailman/listinfo/wsfii-discuss
>
>
>   