[wsfii-discuss] Was FON in Spain - Now, can someone please explain...

Wed Jul 19 17:49:04 UTC 2006

Juergen,

Thank you for your comments, you managed to explain several points to me that I had no conception of.

I believe this is a very valid approach in some but not all situations. For example, in areas where a fair portion of the population is technically competent and have a working knowledge of computers, I can see this kind of network being extremely effective. Conversely, in areas that are very rural and that would depend on a lot of hops to connect, unless there is a local team that can handle the repairs and/or upgrades I am not sure how this could survive. Please note - this is also true for an centralized network design as well.

One thing I have learned is - there is no one right answer for every situation (credit to Esme Vos) but as I like to remind myself, I have personally attempted an incredible number of wrong ones. :-)

Again, thank you,

Ken

Juergen Neumann wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Please see bottom for my comments.
>
>   
>>> These are lightweight infrastructures and though vulnerable is many
>>> ways are easily repairable and flexible enough to overcome
>>>       
> obstacles.
>   
>>> Networks and users will always require attention and support as they
>>> grow and develop, and will always raise issues for us to tackle.
>>>       
>> Again, based on a developing nation deployment, who would be the
>>     
> person
>   
>> that fixes these problems - oftentimes fighting the obstacles of very
>> computer illiterate users coupled with long distances compounding the
>> problems.
>>
>> My concern is based on who, if anyone, is looking at this aspect of
>>     
> the
>   
>> daily use of these networks.
>>
>> In a centralized network, this type of problem can be dealt with,
>> individual users can be shut off if they are infected with a virus as
>> well as defensive action can be taken from DDOS attacks. Considering
>> that roughly 2/3rds of the total Internet traffic is now compromised
>>     
> of
>   
>> PtP transfers a centralized network can also "manage" this traffic but
>>     
> I
>   
>> see no comparable mechanism in the networks we are talking about here.
>> Is there such a thing? Does this even need to be addressed?
>>
>>     
>>> Our "spontaneous networks" are user oriented, all involved have a
>>> contribution to make and much to learn.
>>>       
>> Please understand, I love this concept and can see all kinds of
>> applications for this technology ranging from emergency communications
>> to infrastructure deployment as well as many, many others. I see this
>> type of network being able to provide many critical services while
>> providing value to the community at large without monthly recurring
>> expenses. However, this is also something that I see as being suitable
>> for industrialized nations to be deploying and based on my complete
>>     
> lack
>   
>> of understanding I have concerns (as noted above) that this type of
>> network architecture is not the best choice for developing nations as
>>     
> it
>   
>> sits today.
>>
>> Based on your experience, do you think some kind of management can be
>> designed where "superusers" can be granted the ability to see network
>> issues and fix them remotely? Can some kind of monitoring be built
>>     
> into
>   
>> these platforms that will identify trouble spots so they can be dealt
>> with? Is this approach even advisable?
>>     
>
> I think that amongst the different community networks out there, there
> are many variations of these issues. I want to say something about our
> Berlin approach and why I think that this is the best way to run
> networks of large scale and almost unlimited growth.
>
> If a network is administered by a core group, the core group and it's
> organisation will have to grow with the number of nodes attached. That
> is a huge project in a huge network. The "user" in such a network will
> always expect help and support from the administration and will not take
> efforts to help him- or herself. The network will not be self-provided
> but provided by an (any) other organisation.
>
> Our approach is a totally self run and self administered network. Every
> single user or better every node-owner is responsible for his/her node.
> All problems are solved locally by the local community of neighbours -
> of course with the help of the rest of the community in form of wikis,
> mailinglist, and other colab-tools and self organized visiting and
> helping each other face-to-face.
>
> Such a network has to suffer from misconfiguration, frustration,
> DOS-attacs (many of them happening because people don't know what they
> are doing - not on purpose) and so on and so forth, but in the sum, and
> I can state that with more than three years of experience here in
> Berlin, I works pretty well.
>
> The big advantage is that people can grow the network themselves without
> any dependency on the administration (which just doesn't exist). The
> community as a whole takes efforts to optimize the system - basicly the
> software run on the nodes and documentation and teaching material). So
> the intelligence of the software which is run on the nodes is the
> essential key to quality of the network. This software MUST be
> open-source, so that the community can contribute, optimize and change
> it to their needs (that's another reason why fon just is no alternative
> at all!). 
>
> With this totally decentralized approach based on the idea that people
> help themselves in a do-it-yourself (DIY) manner, self organized, self
> responsible, we have managed to run a network that grows from day to day
> without any centralized administration. 
>
> I know that there is a lot of critique about this approach and many
> people believe that it just doesn't work for one reason or the other.
> And I know that it takes a lot of optimism to start a project this way -
> putting the trust in the community not in a legal entity. And maybe in
> some places it works better and in some other places this might even
> fail ...
>
> But if I think of India and it's agenda for 2007 or Afrika  or other
> huge projects I think this is the best way to reach the goals. It means
> to trust and to teach the local people and to enable them to fulfil
> their own wishes. It means to enable people to help and teach each other
> in a true grassroots manner.       
>
> These are just my 2 cents about deploying ICT in large scale. Maybe I
> have no clew of what I'm talking about !?
>
> Best ...
>
> JuergeN
>
>  
>
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>
>
>
>   

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