[wsfii-discuss] Was FON in Spain - Now, can someone please explain...

Fri Jul 21 10:23:02 UTC 2006

Hi Ken and all,

> Thank you for your comments, you managed to explain several points to
me
> that I had no conception of.
> 
> I believe this is a very valid approach in some but not all
situations.
> For example, in areas where a fair portion of the population is
> technically competent and have a working knowledge of computers, I can
see
> this kind of network being extremely effective. Conversely, in areas
that
> are very rural and that would depend on a lot of hops to connect,
unless
> there is a local team that can handle the repairs and/or upgrades I am
not
> sure how this could survive. Please note - this is also true for an
> centralized network design as well.
> 
> One thing I have learned is - there is no one right answer for every
> situation (credit to Esme Vos) but as I like to remind myself, I have
> personally attempted an incredible number of wrong ones. :-)

Yes, I totally agree, and I also think that every network is a mixture
of all the pure options that have been discussed here now. I think that
keeping all these good comments and best practices in mind it should be
possible to find the right way to build networks almost everywhere. 

A combination of these methods and ideas, the level of organisation and
peoples engagement depending on the local situation is what it needs.
But a general shift to do more DIY and teaching approach will always be
a good way -> power to the people!

Best wishes,

JuergeN

> Juergen Neumann wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Please see bottom for my comments.
> >
> >
> >>> These are lightweight infrastructures and though vulnerable is
many
> >>> ways are easily repairable and flexible enough to overcome
> >>>
> > obstacles.
> >
> >>> Networks and users will always require attention and support as
they
> >>> grow and develop, and will always raise issues for us to tackle.
> >>>
> >> Again, based on a developing nation deployment, who would be the
> >>
> > person
> >
> >> that fixes these problems - oftentimes fighting the obstacles of
very
> >> computer illiterate users coupled with long distances compounding
the
> >> problems.
> >>
> >> My concern is based on who, if anyone, is looking at this aspect of
> >>
> > the
> >
> >> daily use of these networks.
> >>
> >> In a centralized network, this type of problem can be dealt with,
> >> individual users can be shut off if they are infected with a virus
as
> >> well as defensive action can be taken from DDOS attacks.
Considering
> >> that roughly 2/3rds of the total Internet traffic is now
compromised
> >>
> > of
> >
> >> PtP transfers a centralized network can also "manage" this traffic
but
> >>
> > I
> >
> >> see no comparable mechanism in the networks we are talking about
here.
> >> Is there such a thing? Does this even need to be addressed?
> >>
> >>
> >>> Our "spontaneous networks" are user oriented, all involved have a
> >>> contribution to make and much to learn.
> >>>
> >> Please understand, I love this concept and can see all kinds of
> >> applications for this technology ranging from emergency
communications
> >> to infrastructure deployment as well as many, many others. I see
this
> >> type of network being able to provide many critical services while
> >> providing value to the community at large without monthly recurring
> >> expenses. However, this is also something that I see as being
suitable
> >> for industrialized nations to be deploying and based on my complete
> >>
> > lack
> >
> >> of understanding I have concerns (as noted above) that this type of
> >> network architecture is not the best choice for developing nations
as
> >>
> > it
> >
> >> sits today.
> >>
> >> Based on your experience, do you think some kind of management can
be
> >> designed where "superusers" can be granted the ability to see
network
> >> issues and fix them remotely? Can some kind of monitoring be built
> >>
> > into
> >
> >> these platforms that will identify trouble spots so they can be
dealt
> >> with? Is this approach even advisable?
> >>
> >
> > I think that amongst the different community networks out there,
there
> > are many variations of these issues. I want to say something about
our
> > Berlin approach and why I think that this is the best way to run
> > networks of large scale and almost unlimited growth.
> >
> > If a network is administered by a core group, the core group and
it's
> > organisation will have to grow with the number of nodes attached.
That
> > is a huge project in a huge network. The "user" in such a network
will
> > always expect help and support from the administration and will not
take
> > efforts to help him- or herself. The network will not be
self-provided
> > but provided by an (any) other organisation.
> >
> > Our approach is a totally self run and self administered network.
Every
> > single user or better every node-owner is responsible for his/her
node.
> > All problems are solved locally by the local community of neighbours
-
> > of course with the help of the rest of the community in form of
wikis,
> > mailinglist, and other colab-tools and self organized visiting and
> > helping each other face-to-face.
> >
> > Such a network has to suffer from misconfiguration, frustration,
> > DOS-attacs (many of them happening because people don't know what
they
> > are doing - not on purpose) and so on and so forth, but in the sum,
and
> > I can state that with more than three years of experience here in
> > Berlin, I works pretty well.
> >
> > The big advantage is that people can grow the network themselves
without
> > any dependency on the administration (which just doesn't exist). The
> > community as a whole takes efforts to optimize the system - basicly
the
> > software run on the nodes and documentation and teaching material).
So
> > the intelligence of the software which is run on the nodes is the
> > essential key to quality of the network. This software MUST be
> > open-source, so that the community can contribute, optimize and
change
> > it to their needs (that's another reason why fon just is no
alternative
> > at all!).
> >
> > With this totally decentralized approach based on the idea that
people
> > help themselves in a do-it-yourself (DIY) manner, self organized,
self
> > responsible, we have managed to run a network that grows from day to
day
> > without any centralized administration.
> >
> > I know that there is a lot of critique about this approach and many
> > people believe that it just doesn't work for one reason or the
other.
> > And I know that it takes a lot of optimism to start a project this
way -
> > putting the trust in the community not in a legal entity. And maybe
in
> > some places it works better and in some other places this might even
> > fail ...
> >
> > But if I think of India and it's agenda for 2007 or Afrika  or other
> > huge projects I think this is the best way to reach the goals. It
means
> > to trust and to teach the local people and to enable them to fulfil
> > their own wishes. It means to enable people to help and teach each
other
> > in a true grassroots manner.
> >
> > These are just my 2 cents about deploying ICT in large scale. Maybe
I
> > have no clew of what I'm talking about !?
> >
> > Best ...
> >
> > JuergeN
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > wsfii-discuss mailing list
> > wsfii-discuss at lists.okfn.org
> > http://lists.okfn.org/mailman/listinfo/wsfii-discuss
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
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