[wsfii-discuss] Economic Sustainability of Community Wireless

Sun Apr 8 10:06:44 UTC 2007

dear vickram and other.

i should agree on everything on your last mail, specially when you talk
about businessmodel.

in the projects we've been doing here in the northeast region of brasil, it
is not a way of making money, but really, to get all the comunity involved.

otherwise, it will be just another brand..

best regards,
ruiz

On 4/7/07, Vickram Crishna <v1clist at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
> --- Ramon Roca <ramon.roca at guifi.net> wrote:
>
> > Apologies for the confusion on names
> > (Ashram/Ashish) :(
> >
> > I had also no intention to open a flame.
>
> Yes, we do not want a fruitless name-calling kind of
> exchange here, we need our energy to do more useful
> things. It is my fault entirely for getting depressed
> at the scale of the problem.
>
> I picked up on Ramon's comment re FON, and must say,
> right from their early days they have been quite
> peculiar regarding expansion of activities in
> countries like India. Which is to say, there used to
> be no indication (I haven't checked lately) that they
> were closed to the idea, but the fact remains they
> don't reply to emails or show active interest in any
> other way.
>
> Of course reports from Spain have long indicated they
> are just not a very 'community-oriented' organisation.
>
>
> But I was thinking as well of other 'successful'
> commercial organisations (such as Intel, for instance)
> who have been spending a lot of time, effort and money
> to 'educate' people about their technology approach. I
> mean people in India particularly, but I am sure they
> do not ignore other regions.
>
> > recommend people to analyze business models
> > since not all of
> > them are good, and of course not because I'm against
> > business models!.
> >
>
> In my opinion, business is done when two entities
> exchange things of mutually recognised value.
> Centuries ago, such exchanges were 'improved' by using
> a common item of barter, namely cash. Seems pretty
> simple, economics 101, but I don't often hear much
> discussion of the side-effects or fallout of the
> choice to move into that cash-driven ecosystem -
> including the creation of 'efficient' organisations to
> increase the velocity of cash through their portals -
> organisations that are not primarily driven by the
> value they bring to their stakeholders, rather only to
> themselves.
>
> For quite a lot of people nowadays, it is the cash
> that matters and not the value it represents. That is
> very interesting, and challenging for persons and
> discussions like we have here, because we, and other
> cash-strapped people like us, are forced to invest
> more and more effort into doing things merely to keep
> the status quo going, rather than to see worthwhile
> improvement take place on a macro scale.
>
> We really need to find ways to get our energy invested
> in meaningful business, and not the creation of
> quasi-notional value.
>
> There is a long way to go before organisations of that
> kind will have the maturity to work with different
> emerging models of the kind we will debate and try to
> evolve. So we have our work cut out. Not cause to
> despair, but to focus on the core issues.
>
> > In any way, in order to build a strong partnership
> > for that ecosystem,
> > it's important to understand everybody's roles and
> > play their own
> > respectfully with the others. Invading other's roles
> > might be dangerous.
> >
>
> Doing so is not dangerous until it succeeds. Then it
> becomes a threat and is dealt with. That is the
> difference between achieving micro-successes and
> getting real organic change.
>
> > It's important to build trust and gain credibility.
>
> I think it is better to accept ones' (our own)
> difference, and work outward from there.
>
> > there might be
> > some formulas which enable same results, like
> > network
> > neutrality/unlicensed spectrums.
>
> Spectrum definition is managed by ITU, to which most
> nations subscribe. Since it is dominated by the major
> telcos, it is hardly surprising that most of it is
> sequestered for private (and 'security') usage.
>
> Network neutrality is 'permitted' in some limited form
> it is true, in the very narrow regions of the noisy
> and unmanaged ISM bands. That so much is achieved is
> no credit to the managers of spectrum.
>
> Warmly
>
> Vickram
>
> >
> > En/na marco ha escrit:
> > > jeff buderer wrote:
> > >
> > >> Marco,
> > >>
> > >> I think we need your perspective to bring this
> > process forward at least
> > >> in Ghana so please do continue to engage those
> > people you mentioned.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > > my general opinion is, that it is very possible to
> > deal with even big
> > > companies, when have good idea of how to play the
> > "game". we have to
> > > consider the arguments of vickram crishna very
> > well, to get that kind of
> > > good idea about it ...
> > >
> > > i do think, that we can create a space, where in
> > we can set the rules to
> > > a certain extend. we have to have a look at how
> > the market and its big
> > > player work, how ecomical, social and
> > psychological processes are
> > > shaping the world in order to capital investment
> > and profit maximising.
> > > if we understand what will stab in our back and
> > what will benefit the
> > > community in the end, we have the basics to deal
> > with corporations. also
> > > i want to point at the several ethical investment
> > facilities we have in
> > > US and Europe ... the conditions are fantastic
> > (compared to SERO). its a
> > > matter of collective WILL in my eyes ...
> > >
> > > when we want to have an economical sustainability
> > FOR THE PEOPLE, we
> > > will need tools designed for exceptionally this
> > goal. these tools
> > > already exist. certain types cooperatives belong
> > to these tools as I
> > > believe. NGOs can help as well. loose networks as
> > well.
> > > my suggestion is to focus on the founding of a
> > half global / half local
> > > hardware supply cooperative and a similar
> > ISP-cooperative. i wonder if
> > > we should go in details ...
> > >
> > > grts, marco pompe, berlin
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
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> > > wsfii-discuss at lists.okfn.org
> > >
> > http://lists.okfn.org/mailman/listinfo/wsfii-discuss
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
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> >
>
>
> Vickram
>
>
>
>
>
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