No subject
Sun Oct 20 16:01:18 UTC 2013
the fact that it's misleading, consumers can use the work (if they can
figure out what it applies to!). But from a publisher perspective it seems
risky to claim ownership of works that you don't actually own or have
copyrights in works that you don't actually have.
Herb
On Tue, Oct 22, 2013 at 1:59 AM, Federico Morando <
federico.morando at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 10/21/2013 12:09 AM, Rob Myers wrote:
>
>> +1
>>
>> It may be worth putting a note about the non-copyrightability of game
>> rules and/or the overreaching nature of the definition of Open Game
>> Content in the comments.
>>
> -1 on considering the Open Game License as an open license.
>
> Or, at least, I'm very skeptical. In fact, the issue concerning the
> non-copyrightability of game rules "as such" (in the sense that manuals are
> of course copyrightable as the description of a specific rule at a much
> more "micro" level, as soon as ideas and expressions are not merged) is not
> just incidental here. In my opinion, the OGL has been designed in oder to
> instill in the mind of a lot of amateur role playing game authors that "the
> game mechanic [including] the methods, procedures, processes and routines"
> govering a role playing game (let's say, D&D, to be clear) can copyrighted.
>
> Moreover, the clause about the use of Product Identity aims at something
> similar concerning potentially public domains things, such as artifacts,
> creatures, spells, plots.
> But, of course, we can deal with this using the proviso that the OGL is
> only Open when no Product Identity is identified.
>
> Overall, I would not like to endorse this license, even if - technically
> speaking - some readings of the license (i.e., a reading adding "if
> copyrightable" about 10 times...) could lead to an interpretation which is
> in line with the open definition.
>
> To conclude, I do not have strong legal objections to the addition of the
> license the the list of "Conformant but Little Used, Discontinued or
> Deprecated Licenses", but I just wanted to comment on the fact that some
> additional discussion may be appropriate and/or that the proviso about
> Product Identity should be very clear and prominent.
>
> Best,
>
> Federico
>
>
> --
>
> ------------------------------**-----
> Federico MORANDO
> Director of Research and Policy &
> Research Fellow
>
> NEXA Center for Internet & Society
> Politecnico di Torino - DAUIN
> Corso Duca degli Abruzzi, 24
> 10129 TORINO - ITALY
>
> tel.: +39 011 090 5954
> fax: +39 011 090 7216
> mob: +39 339 7507974
> mail: federico.morando at polito.it
> web: http://nexa.polito.it
>
>
>
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>
--
Herb Lainchbury, CEO, Dynamic Solutions Inc.
250.704.6154
http://www.dynamic-solutions.com
--001a11c23c88c7f8cf04e9597b4c
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
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<div dir=3D"ltr">I think Frederico's point about licensing instilling t=
he thought that a work that has copyright protection when it doesn't is=
important.<div><br></div><div><div>We have the same situation with data in=
general. =A0This practice of granting permission to things inappropriately=
also shows up with publishers granting permission to things that they aren=
't sure that they "own".<br>
</div></div><div><br></div><div>It might be out of scope for the OD to addr=
ess the idea that facts have no copyright protection but I would like to se=
e this addressed somewhere. =A0I myself am not 100% clear why licensing is =
required for something that has no protection.</div>
<div><br></div><div>The only reason I think it might be useful to think abo=
ut now is because we're considering a rewrite so perhaps there is a cha=
nce to work something in to address this.</div><div><br></div><div>I think =
it's still useful for publishers to explicitly state they waive any rig=
hts that might be attributed to them associated with a work which is how I =
read CC0 and Pddl type licenses.<br>
</div><div><br></div><div>I'm not lawyer, but what I think is happening=
is that by granting a license to any work, there is an implicit "clai=
m" that the publisher has the right to publish and grant permission to=
such works. =A0Whether these claims are actually valid is another story, b=
ut by waiving any potential rights they basically say "even if we have=
rights, we waive them". =A0The license model on the other hand says &=
quot;we claim that we have copyright protection on this work and we are for=
mally granting you permission to use this work".</div>
<div><br></div><div>From a consumer perspective, I think the end result is =
the same. Except for the fact that it's misleading, consumers can use t=
he work (if they can figure out what it applies to!). =A0But from a publish=
er perspective it seems risky to claim ownership of works that you don'=
t actually own or have copyrights in works that you don't actually have=
.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Herb<br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></=
div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br>=
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Oct 22, 2013 at 1:59 AM, Federico Morand=
o <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:federico.morando at gmail.com" targe=
t=3D"_blank">federico.morando at gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class=3D"im">On 10/21/2013 12:09 AM, Ro=
b Myers wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
+1<br>
<br>
It may be worth putting a note about the non-copyrightability of game<br>
rules and/or the overreaching nature of the definition of Open Game<br>
Content in the comments.<br>
</blockquote></div>
-1 on considering the Open Game License as an open license.<br>
<br>
Or, at least, I'm very skeptical. In fact, the issue concerning the non=
-copyrightability of game rules "as such" (in the sense that manu=
als are of course copyrightable as the description of a specific rule at a =
much more "micro" level, as soon as ideas and expressions are not=
merged) is not just incidental here. In my opinion, the OGL has been desig=
ned in oder to instill in the mind of a lot of amateur role playing game au=
thors that "the game mechanic [including] the methods, procedures, pro=
cesses and routines" govering a role playing game (let's say, D&am=
p;D, to be clear) can copyrighted.<br>
<br>
Moreover, the clause about the use of Product Identity aims at something si=
milar concerning potentially public domains things, such as artifacts, crea=
tures, spells, plots.<br>
But, of course, we can deal with this using the proviso that the OGL is onl=
y Open when no Product Identity is identified.<br>
<br>
Overall, I would not like to endorse this license, even if - technically sp=
eaking - some readings of the license (i.e., a reading adding "if copy=
rightable" about 10 times...) could lead to an interpretation which is=
in line with the open definition.<br>
<br>
To conclude, I do not have strong legal objections to the addition of the l=
icense the the list of "Conformant but Little Used, Discontinued or De=
precated Licenses", but I just wanted to comment on the fact that some=
additional discussion may be appropriate and/or that the proviso about Pro=
duct Identity should be very clear and prominent.<br>
<br>
Best,<br>
<br>
Federico<br>
<br>
<br>
-- <br>
<br>
------------------------------<u></u>-----<br>
Federico MORANDO<br>
Director of Research and Policy &<br>
Research Fellow<br>
<br>
NEXA Center for Internet & Society<br>
Politecnico di Torino - DAUIN<br>
Corso Duca degli Abruzzi, 24<br>
10129 TORINO - ITALY<br>
<br>
tel.: <a href=3D"tel:%2B39%20011%20090%205954" value=3D"+390110905954" targ=
et=3D"_blank">+39 011 090 5954</a><br>
fax: <a href=3D"tel:%2B39%20011%20090%207216" value=3D"+390110907216" targe=
t=3D"_blank">+39 011 090 7216</a><br>
mob: <a href=3D"tel:%2B39%20339%207507974" value=3D"+393397507974" target=
=3D"_blank">+39 339 7507974</a><br>
mail: <a href=3D"mailto:federico.morando at polito.it" target=3D"_blank">feder=
ico.morando at polito.it</a><br>
web: <a href=3D"http://nexa.polito.it" target=3D"_blank">http://nexa.polito=
.it</a><div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"><br>
<br>
<br>
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</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br>=
<div dir=3D"ltr"><span></span><div><br><div>Herb Lainchbury, CEO, Dynamic S=
olutions Inc.</div><div>250.704.6154</div></div><div><a href=3D"http://www.=
dynamic-solutions.com" target=3D"_blank">http://www.dynamic-solutions.com</=
a><br>
</div><div><img src=3D"http://www.dynamic-solutions.com/images/dsisignature=
.png" border=3D"0"><br></div><div><br></div></div>
</div>
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