[Okfn-ca] [CivicAccess-discuss] The Role of Canadian Municipal Open Data: A Multi-city Evaluation | Currie, Liam (MA Thesis)

Wed Sep 4 14:56:44 UTC 2013

Dear friends, chers amis,

Please see the Open Definition (both for Open Data and Open Content) 
adopted by Open Knowledge foundation Network

In English : http://opendefinition.org/okd/

En français : http://opendefinition.org/okd/francais/

« Quand dire c'est faire » (Austin, 1970)
/« How to do things with Words » (Austin, 1955)/

Cordialement, Regards,

P.-S. Les envois multiples (crosspostings) sont  souvent nécessaires en 
curation, car une personne est libre de faire partie de plusieurs 
réseaux ou média sociaux. À chacun de gérer ces propres abonnements et 
non aux expéditeurs de limiter leur force de liaison/curation.

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--- Liaison par | Curation by ---
Dre Diane Mercier
Ambassadrice de l'Open Knowledge Foundation - Groupe local au Canada
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Le 2013-09-04 10:18, James McKinney a écrit :
> (Cutting out all the other lists so that we don't cross-post 
> unnecessarily.)
>
> Actually, Immanuel was quoting Peder :) But Stephane did agree with 
> Peder with:
>
>> +1 Although I am a proponent of open source software, OS/FLOSS 
>> software cannot be tied to strongly with open data (or open gov). 
>> FLOSS software can enabled some benefits linked to open data, for 
>> example better collaboration around data management and software 
>> development. But it is not and should not be presented as a 
>> prerequisite. Many gov agencies are used to work with some software 
>> provider and those agencies and their team should not feel under 
>> attack when open data arrives.
>
> Anyway, you can clearly have open data without open source. As 
> mentioned, many governments use proprietary platforms like Socrata to 
> manage and distribute open data, and even more governments use 
> in-house proprietary code to do the same. A lot of open data currently 
> published is created by proprietary software (ESRI ArcGIS) and stored 
> in a proprietary format (ESRI Shapefile).
>
> The definition of open data does not set any requirements with respect 
> to the licensing of the *software* used to create, manage and 
> distribute the open data. The definition only sets requirements with 
> respect to the licensing of the *data*.
>
> And you can clearly analyze open data and open source separately. Open 
> source (and free software) have been around a lot longer as 
> established concepts than open data has, and people have had no 
> trouble analyzing open source in isolation for all that time.
>
> Anyway, no one is arguing against open source. People have simply 
> pointed out that there is a distinction between the two concepts.
>
> James
>
> On 2013-09-04, at 8:30 AM, Tracey P. Lauriault wrote:
>
>> Immanuel;
>>
>> What Stephane is saying, is that in the short term, as 
>> cities/Provs/Terr/Feds are transitioning to open data strategies, 
>> they need to cobble up what they have on hand to get data out.  Be 
>> that open source or not.  Once they get established a little, and do 
>> some organizational learning they can move to other platforms which 
>> in the best possible world, OS.
>>
>> I would argue that many of the current portals, even currently used 
>> open data OS ones, do not scale well when tens of thousands of 
>> datasets are in the systems.  The TBS open data portal is an great 
>> example.  Searching data with tags is by no means the best way, and 
>> common keyword vocabularies need to be used in order to actually find 
>> stuff.  This is where the geomatics folks, and the librarians come 
>> into play, they have been doing catalogs and portals for a good long 
>> time.  The Ottawa Public Library is an example of an excellent 
>> interoperable multi institutional catalog system.  Just need to think 
>> of data as books!
>>
>> Finally, this list has always been one where we communicate 
>> diplomatically.  Your last post was, somewhat not of that nature.  
>> Breathe first.  Absolutism should be tempered with the grey zones of 
>> institutional change that we are witnessing in our institutions.  We 
>> will have to be patient or we will lose them.
>>
>> Cheers
>> t
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 4, 2013 at 12:54 PM, Immanuel Giulea 
>> <giulea.immanuel at gmail.com <mailto:giulea.immanuel at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>         You don't need open source to have open data. One the most
>>         successful open data platforms on the planet is not built
>>         with open source software (Socrata).  And most of the worlds
>>         best open data is stored in a decidedly non-open data data
>>         store which cannot be easily replaced (Oracle), nor should it.
>>
>>     -1
>>
>>     This is so wrong, and on so many levels!!
>>
>>     You cannot have open data without open source.
>>     Socrata is not the best platform, it is being replaced by CKAN.
>>     Oracle is being abandonned to the favor of MariaDB and Postgres
>>     and other open database solutions.
>>
>>
>>         As a subject matter, Open Source software is a very different
>>         realm than open data, something that people surprisingly get
>>         mixed up together and lump into one because they share is the
>>         word "Open".    It's also something that would be difficult
>>         to write about with any depth unless you have actually
>>         worked  in software development;  it's perhaps the only way
>>         to separate  the hype from reality....and there is a lot of
>>         hype to be sure.
>>
>>
>>
>>     -1 again
>>     And wrong on so many levels again. Open data and open source are
>>     intimately linked and should be analysed together.
>>     You don't need an degree in software development to analyse the
>>     adoption levels of FLOSS across different countries, levels of
>>     government and industries.
>>
>>
>>     No open data without open source!
>>
>>     Just my 2 cents
>>
>>
>>     Immanuel
>>
>>
>>
>>     On Mon, Sep 2, 2013 at 4:58 PM, Peder Jakobsen
>>     <pjakobsen at gmail.com <mailto:pjakobsen at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>         On 2013-09-01, at 7:55 AM, Immanuel Giulea
>>         <giulea.immanuel at gmail.com
>>         <mailto:giulea.immanuel at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>>         I would include the use of Free Libre and Open Source
>>>         Software because open data without the right tools is not
>>>         completely open data.
>>
>>         You don't need open source to have open data. One the most
>>         successful open data platforms on the planet is not built
>>         with open source software (Socrata).  And most of the worlds
>>         best open data is stored in a decidedly non-open data data
>>         store which cannot be easily replaced (Oracle), nor should it.
>>
>>         As a subject matter, Open Source software is a very different
>>         realm than open data, something that people surprisingly get
>>         mixed up together and lump into one because they share is the
>>         word "Open".    It's also something that would be difficult
>>         to write about with any depth unless you have actually worked
>>          in software development;  it's perhaps the only way to
>>         separate  the hype from reality....and there is a lot of hype
>>         to be sure.
>>
>>         I love open data for a thesis, I would just extend it beyond
>>         the Canadian border, otherwise the subject matter seems too
>>         small.
>>
>>         Peder
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Tracey P. Lauriault
>> http://traceyplauriault.wordpress.com/2013/07/23/moving-to-ireland/
>> https://gcrc.carleton.ca/confluence/display/GCRCWEB/Lauriault
>> http://datalibre.ca/
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>
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