[Open-education] open-education Digest, Vol 11, Issue 9

Thu Jun 5 18:13:23 UTC 2014

Otavio, Pat, Marieke and Terry and David (CC'd)

I really enjoyed reading the discussions over the last weeks here on 
this topic below. There are so many interesting points. I guess 
completely agree with the direction of Ottavio's question. Let's assume 
that potentially there are uses for open data to act in transformative 
ways, or to help foster equity and improve service delivery. But as well 
there are certainly also ways to bind open data into supporting projects 
that are not focused on furthering social justice per se.

The thing about openness per se I guess is that it appears often 
politically amenable to both the left and the right. Bringing service 
delivery closer to people's intentions and voice promises greater 
participation and so much wider variety of pluralism and difference. 
This appeals to the left generally or to those politically that interest 
themselves with a 'grassroots' theory of change.

However, the fact that it brings in the element of choice and delivers 
services with more efficiency and competition appeals naturally to those 
who see all solutions as best constructed in the guise of an open market.

So in terms of generalities there is always a need to qualify and 
designate why certain changes fit with certain perspectives, or why in 
this specific context this works because of xyz. It is hard to 
effectively critque ópen data'on the basis of ideological positions 
alone, or at least I don't see huge value in that.

I think it can help to consider what else is going on. There is also a 
wider picture around the role of schools and how teaching and learning 
is changing that relates to all this. Certainly in education and 
technology discussions we hear a lot less talk about how institutions 
work and how teachers might do damage or good, and a lot more about how 
learning works and how individuals might be motivated or not to discover 
their own learning pathways. I realise this is all very simplistic but 
the point is that there is a process of change in the balance in 
education which technology is responsible for to some extent.

But I'd like to point out however that the debate over many of these 
questions about school choice is something that has not changed and has 
remained stubbornly inbedded. It is an old one. Have a look at how 
Milton Friedman used the language of 'the broken system' in the late 
1970's and advocated for greater school choice then. The language and 
the way he describes the system then is very much the way it gets 
described often by certain commentators now, at least in the USA.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6WN4RjEdlI

What is interesting to me possibly is that we are still in the nexus of 
this kind of argument.  I think the debate over the allocation of public 
goods like education is a mirror image of the anxieties and concerns 
about the wider world and the political agreements we live with and in. 
The problems, at least of education seem most often to be also the 
problems of society itself in different ways.. that's a bit of a general 
statement but the point is that there is more to consider, it is not 
easy to make it into black and white arguements.

Recently we had a similar conversation at an ICT4D meetup debating the 
term ICT4D. Some people pointed out that there is a blurry line between 
using technology for social good and simply empowering those who are 
most able to make use of it, so widening gaps in terms of empowerment in 
the process. As they pointed out, a one solution fits all approach (or a 
one device for all purposes approach) gives the same to all but just 
benefits those who already have so much in the end.

In education in short I think there are certainly ways to improve 
performance and this is necessary. By taking measures and managing for 
results you get better results undoubtably. But the hidden danger is the 
mindset that sees one solution for all as 'the solution'. The hegemony 
of a market based 'performance' culture is certainly tied to a certain 
political agenda at least in the UK.

Instead as you have already said, we can look for ways to find new 
directions. To bring out or surface a theory of change, or idea of how 
to bring about good change, using different principles. Take for example 
the sort of principles that Andy Stirling proposes in his manifesto for 
sustainable development and innovation at the STEPS centre where he 
talks about looking at the 3 D's: directionality, distribution and 
diversity.  Here is presentation on this: 
http://www.slideshare.net/Stepscentre/manifesto-presentationelyandleach

In short I think the notion of how you see the process of change taking 
place is an important part of the whole deal. It will hopefully surface 
a lot in the upcoming OKFest in Berlin, where there is a clear emphasis 
on the'theory of change' across a whole raft of open data ideas. It 
would be great to bring this discussion in some ways forward into that 
general debate I think there and see what comes out of it.

Best

Tom

On 04/06/2014 18:28, open-education-request at lists.okfn.org wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
>     1. Re: Open Government Data: Helping Parents to find the Best
>        School for their Kids (Otavio Ritter)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2014 14:15:23 -0300
> From: Otavio Ritter <otavio.ritter at gmail.com>
> To: "open-education at lists.okfn.org" <open-education at lists.okfn.org>
> Subject: Re: [Open-education] Open Government Data: Helping Parents to
> 	find the Best School for their Kids
> Message-ID:
> 	<CAH1pEefZ+wQfoBGaAqXWKstjW=299n4UTpbc4dGwY3n5xqVx9Q at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Pat, let me tell a simple story of open data impact different from
> traditional league tables. This is from Brazil where I live.
>
> School census here collects data about violence in school area (like drug
> traffic or other risks to pupils). Based on an open data platform developed
> to navigate through the census, it was possible to see that, in a specific
> Brazilian state, 35% of public schools had drug traffic near the schools.
> This fact created a pressure in the local government to create a public
> policy and a campaign to prevent drug use among students:
> https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.484468108297027.1073741826.273872446023262&type=3
>
> So in a nutshell, open data in education has a huge potential in my
> opinion, much more than facilitate choosing a school.
> In this example, I believe it helped save lifes.
>
> Regards
> Otavio
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 12:55 PM, Pat Lockley <patrick.lockley at googlemail.com
>> wrote:
>> "The elitism comes in when the data says this school is better, and to
>> come to this school you need to buy a 200,000 pound house. Tie that into
>> knowing your school isn't very good and something like declaration theory
>> (if you think you're going to fail, you're more likely to fail) then the
>> openness is counter-intuitive. "
>>
>> I'm confused here. So the other option is not knowing that certain schools
>> are better than your local school? Surely knowing about the situation can
>> lead to change? Maybe your argument is about self-fulfilling prophecies? I
>> have children in the UK school system and am well aware that there are no
>> easy answers.
>>
>> --------------------
>>
>> We know schools are better though, we know Eton is better than almost
>> everywhere. We've league tables today that tell us Cambridge is best (shock
>> horror). If we feel the educational system should be comprehensive
>> (apologies for England and Wales terms), which is logically an equitable,
>> "open" system, then the data is more neutral? If schools are competing with
>> each other, or having competition engineered for them, then the data isn't
>> benign. If the data was for example - successful teaching approaches - then
>> the sharing of that would offer a benefit to anyone who chooses to use it
>> (a bit like OER).
>>
>> Lets consider Chepstow, small town, half inside Wales, half inside
>> England. There are no league tables in Wales. Do the Welsh suffer due to
>> this? Are their schools worse? Does a broader goal of social cohesion
>> override a desire for individual access to data? The best schools in the UK
>> are usually faith schools, and we have people faking a faith to get in, and
>> I'm pretty sure the data on god existing is open. We also know a lot of
>> social division and problems are caused by communities failing to
>> integrate. Was it Brighton that has a lottery for school places to try and
>> remove this problem?
>>
>> So it isn't not knowing, but more that when the data / knowledge is
>> quantised and compartmentalised (unless, all data is open) and so, when
>> treated in isolation doesn't look into wider issues which are explicitly
>> related.
>>
>> Woods and trees I guess.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 3:58 PM, Marieke Guy <marieke.guy at okfn.org> wrote:
>>
>>>   Hi Pat,
>>>
>>> Hmmm....
>>>
>>> "The elitism comes in when the data says this school is better, and to
>>> come to this school you need to buy a 200,000 pound house. Tie that into
>>> knowing your school isn't very good and something like declaration theory
>>> (if you think you're going to fail, you're more likely to fail) then the
>>> openness is counter-intuitive. "
>>>
>>> I'm confused here. So the other option is not knowing that certain
>>> schools are better than your local school? Surely knowing about the
>>> situation can lead to change? Maybe your argument is about self-fulfilling
>>> prophecies? I have children in the UK school system and am well aware that
>>> there are no easy answers.
>>>
>>> However open data can make for positive change. As Ottavio says "open
>>> education data helps a qualified debate by different actors that otherwise
>>> would not have access to this information restricted to school burocreacies"
>>>
>>> I think Ottavio's questions are very pertinent:
>>>
>>> Data - "But how they can be used to promote equity ? How they can be used
>>> to advance learning ? How they can be used to foster more collaboration
>>> within school clusters instead of more competition ? The data is there and
>>> how it can be used to defend these agendas?"
>>>
>>> These are what matter to those of us interested in open data. Exploration
>>> around these is where the potential lays.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> Marieke
>>>
>>>
>>> On 04/06/2014 15:38, Pat Lockley wrote:
>>>
>>> Quoting
>>>
>>> "Enabling parents to make choices about schools seems to me to be a good
>>> thing. We are not just talking about better academic schools but more
>>> appropriate schools (ones that support particular student needs with regard
>>> to academic ability, special needs, religion, disability, possible vocation
>>> etc.) I totally understand that league tables have in the past caused
>>> hysteria, but much of this is to do with media interpretation. Surely more
>>> data and more eyes on that data can bring us a more objective perspective.
>>> Data is not elitist, it is a tool. The elitism element comes in when people
>>> cannot interpret that data or have access to it. This means more tools to
>>> aid data interpretation, more training in data skills and more open data.
>>> Opening up data is to me an essential part of opening up education."
>>>
>>>   The elitism comes in when the data says this school is better, and to
>>> come to this school you need to buy a 200,000 pound house. Tie that into
>>> knowing your school isn't very good and something like declaration theory
>>> (if you think you're going to fail, you're more likely to fail) then the
>>> openness is counter-intuitive.
>>>
>>>   The reliance on many eyes, or many people, or civic action is also
>>> based on people having the time to do it. If you have the time to use the
>>> data, or can pay someone to do it for you, then you can benefit from it.
>>>
>>>   If the public policy was "all data open" then that's fine, but it isn't
>>> applied holistically, or consistently. Schools have league tables, but not
>>> say Army Battalions, Bus Drivers, trade missions, bank binus data, etc (and
>>> the chance it isn't without bias and that some of those biases aren't
>>> political is really slim). Voting as change is convenient if you think the
>>> lib dems stood for tripling tuition fees, it took an FOI request to access
>>> the Rothschild report on loan book selling (open?) and given the current
>>> system is costing more than the old system - it is likely openness is not
>>> going to easily happen with this data.
>>>
>>>   Contrast with an OER, everyone can, crudely, access it should they so
>>> with (with chronological implications above respected too). That is, to me,
>>> a very different thing.
>>>
>>>   I think what lacks from most openness is a sense almost of something
>>> akin to jurisprudence in how openness is developed as a concept. There is a
>>> quote from Blackstone about the law - "those entering a system surrender
>>> some liberty in doing so", and it seems innately openness isn't win win for
>>> everyone. Question then is how you reduce the negative impact of it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>   On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 2:54 PM, Marieke Guy <marieke.guy at okfn.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>   Hi Pat and Terry,
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for your contributions here. They've given me a lot of food for
>>>> thought and I will look in to some of the points you make in more detail
>>>> when I have time.
>>>>
>>>> For example Terry - your post on schools being locked shut is a good
>>>> resource for the Friday Chat question I posted last week 'Is traditional
>>>> education not open?' - maybe I'll repost on Friday ;-)
>>>>
>>>> Anyway I just wanted to share my gut reaction to your comments about
>>>> this particular use of open data in education.
>>>>
>>>> Terry says: "*Surely, surely open education should be about far more
>>>> than just using performance data to try to get our kids into a better
>>>> school than our less well informed neighbours.*"
>>>>
>>>> And my answer to this would be: *Yes, yes it is, and there is so much
>>>> more we can do with it, but open data is by it's very nature open and
>>>> available for people to use in anyway they see fit. This is one interesting
>>>> approach with huge amounts of potential.*
>>>>
>>>> The open definition states (and this is referenced in the handbook).
>>>> "A piece of data or content is open if anyone is free to use, reuse, and
>>>> redistribute it -- subject only, at most, to the requirement to attribute
>>>> and/or share-alike."
>>>>
>>>> This then means it can be used for good, and for bad, and for commercial
>>>> exploitation.
>>>>
>>>> Enabling parents to make choices about schools seems to me to be a good
>>>> thing. We are not just talking about better academic schools but more
>>>> appropriate schools (ones that support particular student needs with regard
>>>> to academic ability, special needs, religion, disability, possible vocation
>>>> etc.) I totally understand that league tables have in the past caused
>>>> hysteria, but much of this is to do with media interpretation. Surely more
>>>> data and more eyes on that data can bring us a more objective perspective.
>>>> Data is not elitist, it is a tool. The elitism element comes in when people
>>>> cannot interpret that data or have access to it. This means more tools to
>>>> aid data interpretation, more training in data skills and more open data.
>>>> Opening up data is to me an essential part of opening up education.
>>>>
>>>> You might find it interesting to read about what other countries such as
>>>> Holland <http://education.okfn.org/open-education-holland/> and Tanzania
>>>> <http://education.okfn.org/open-education-tanzania/> are doing in this
>>>> area.
>>>>
>>>> In UK (where I am based) the ODI Data Challenge
>>>> <https://hackpad.com/Education-Open-Data-Challenge-kLW3ZeR98lj#>
>>>> mentioned by Ed has supported the development of some really great apps
>>>> built on open education data. The expression 'the best thing to done with
>>>> your data will be thought of by someone else' certainly holds true here.
>>>>
>>>> So, to use one of my personal much overused phrases, "all possibilities
>>>> still exist"!
>>>>
>>>> The matter of marketisation of learning is something for another day,
>>>> but for me it's a shifting area, especially when you think about countries
>>>> outside the global south.
>>>>
>>>> Anyway thanks again for your comments. Always great to hear.
>>>>
>>>> Marieke
>>>>
>>>> On 04/06/2014 12:47, Pat Lockley wrote:
>>>>
>>>> hear hear
>>>>
>>>>   And this is what I was going to say re Friday's chat. To me a lot of
>>>> the open data / open access arguments around openness are a lot more
>>>> neo-liberal / neo-con. So when we say traditional education, do we mean
>>>> before league tables? Or before licensing? Or before openness?
>>>>
>>>>   As an experiment, contrast our "Open" (if that thing exists) with
>>>> Corporate Openness (say
>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piercing_the_corporate_veil) and then
>>>> perhaps tie this to citzens united and the openness of lobbying
>>>> organisations.
>>>>
>>>>   Paraphrasing this quote "The society which scorns excellence in
>>>> plumbing as a humble activity and tolerates shoddiness in philosophy
>>>> because it is an exalted activity will have neither good plumbing nor good
>>>> philosophy: neither its pipes nor its theories will hold water."
>>>>
>>>>   Because if we have a public openness and then allow a corporate
>>>> "closed" then the benefit of the openness looks to me like it is lost, or
>>>> worst, has the negative outcomes you'd expect to have once neo-liberal
>>>> competition kicks in.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 10:27 AM, Terry Loane <terryloane at aol.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>   For me there is a huge irony here.
>>>>>
>>>>> The very concept of open education is surely that people should be
>>>>> "free to use, reuse, and redistribute [resources]" (to quote from:
>>>>> http://booktype.okfn.org/open-education-handbook/_draft/_v/1.0/what-is-open/)
>>>>> Now this is the very opposite of a market approach to distributing goods
>>>>> and services. Marketisation of learning runs counter to open education
>>>>> because it is has to involve an assumption of privilege for those who
>>>>> access a particular resource/institution, which by definition will be
>>>>> scarce (e.g. an expensive textbook or an over-subscribed school.) The first
>>>>> paragraph of the quotation from Radu Cucos is a text-book, neo-liberal
>>>>> rationale for the market approach to schooling:
>>>>>
>>>>> "Each country has its own school market, if education is considered as
>>>>> a product in this market. Perfect information about products is one of the
>>>>> main characteristics of competitive markets. From this perspective, giving
>>>>> parents the opportunity to have access to information about schools
>>>>> characteristics will contribute to the increase in the competitiveness of
>>>>> the schools market. Educational institutions will have incentives to
>>>>> improve their performance in order to attract more students."
>>>>>
>>>>> Do we really believe that the idea of using 'open data' to ensure that
>>>>> our kids attend a better school than the ones next door who do not have
>>>>> access to such data is what open education should be about? Do we really
>>>>> believe the last sentence of the above quotation: "Educational institutions
>>>>> will have incentives to improve their performance in order to attract more
>>>>> students"? (The evidence in the UK is that publication and fetishizing of
>>>>> league tables can have a detrimental effect on learning because it focuses
>>>>> the attention of the institution on improving performance data rather than
>>>>> providing the best for each individual child.)
>>>>>
>>>>> I am also struck by the irony of using 'open data' to choose a school,
>>>>> because schools are such 'closed' institutions, in just about every sense
>>>>> of the word - I have blogged bout this recently here:
>>>>> http://terryloane.typepad.com/reallylearn/2014/03/why-are-schools-locked-shut-most-of-the-time.html
>>>>>
>>>>> Surely, surely open education should be about far more than just using
>>>>> performance data to try to get our kids into a better school than our less
>>>>> well informed neighbours.
>>>>>
>>>>> Terry Loane
>>>>>
>>>>> On 03/06/2014 16:02, Marieke Guy wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> There is a great post on the Open Government Partnership blog about
>>>>> using open government data to help parents find the best school.
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.opengovpartnership.org/blog/radu-cucos/2014/06/03/open-government-data-helping-parents-find-best-school-their-kids
>>>>>
>>>>> The post, by Radu Cucos from Moldova, lists several apps from different
>>>>> countries that have been built on government data related to education and
>>>>> education institutions. I'll be adding these to the Open Education
>>>>> Handbook
>>>>> <http://booktype.okfn.org/open-education-handbook/_draft/_v/1.0/open-data-use-cases/>
>>>>> .
>>>>>
>>>>> He concludes by saying:
>>>>>
>>>>> "Open data on schools has great value not only for parents but also for
>>>>> the educational system in general. Each country has its own school market,
>>>>> if education is considered as a product in this market. Perfect information
>>>>> about products is one of the main characteristics of competitive markets.
>>>>>  From this perspective, giving parents the opportunity to have access to
>>>>> information about schools characteristics will contribute to the increase
>>>>> in the competitiveness of the schools market. Educational institutions will
>>>>> have incentives to improve their performance in order to attract more
>>>>> students.
>>>>>
>>>>> While adopting the Open Data Initiative policy in the education field
>>>>> has advantages for everybody - parents, schools and state authorities, it
>>>>> falls to governments to take the leading role in promoting Open Data. First
>>>>> of all, governments have to make sure that data on schools is being
>>>>> publicly released and regularly updated. Second, state institutions have to
>>>>> incentivize developers to create innovative apps. Third, governments have
>>>>> to increase demand for educational apps by raising awareness, lowering the
>>>>> costs for Open Data apps accessibility and decreasing the costs of
>>>>> accessing additional sources and information about schools."
>>>>>
>>>>> I'd be interested in hearing more about this from a country
>>>>> perspective. Anyone got any interesting use cases to share?
>>>>>
>>>>> We plan to have a community session on 'What has open data got to do
>>>>> with education' during June - details to follow.
>>>>>
>>>>> Marieke
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>> Marieke Guy
>>>>> LinkedUp <http://linkedup-project.eu/> Project Community Coordinator |
>>>>> skype: mariekeguy | tel: 44 (0) 1285 885681 | @mariekeguy
>>>>> <http://twitter.com/mariekeguy>
>>>>> The Open Knowledge <http://okfn.org/>
>>>>> *Empowering through Open Knowledge*
>>>>> http://okfn.org/ | @okfn <http://twitter.com/okfn>| OKF on Facebook |
>>>>> Blog | Newsletter
>>>>> http://remoteworker.wordpress.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> open-education mailing listopen-education at lists.okfn.orghttps://lists.okfn.org/mailman/listinfo/open-education
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> open-education mailing list
>>>>> open-education at lists.okfn.org
>>>>> https://lists.okfn.org/mailman/listinfo/open-education
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> open-education mailing listopen-education at lists.okfn.orghttps://lists.okfn.org/mailman/listinfo/open-education
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> Marieke Guy
>>>> LinkedUp <http://linkedup-project.eu/> Project Community Coordinator |
>>>> skype: mariekeguy | tel: 44 (0) 1285 885681 | @mariekeguy
>>>> <http://twitter.com/mariekeguy>
>>>> Open Knowledge <http://okfn.org/>
>>>> *Empowering through Open Knowledge*
>>>> http://okfn.org/ | @okfn <http://twitter.com/okfn>| OKF on Facebook |
>>>> Blog | Newsletter
>>>> http://remoteworker.wordpress.com
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> open-education mailing listopen-education at lists.okfn.orghttps://lists.okfn.org/mailman/listinfo/open-education
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Marieke Guy
>>> LinkedUp <http://linkedup-project.eu/> Project Community Coordinator |
>>> skype: mariekeguy | tel: 44 (0) 1285 885681 | @mariekeguy
>>> <http://twitter.com/mariekeguy>
>>> Open Knowledge <http://okfn.org/>
>>> *Empowering through Open Knowledge*
>>> http://okfn.org/ | @okfn <http://twitter.com/okfn>| OKF on Facebook |
>>> Blog | Newsletter
>>> http://remoteworker.wordpress.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> open-education at lists.okfn.org
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