[open-science] [Open-access] Elsevier: some facts, by Tim Gowers

Wed Apr 30 16:07:24 UTC 2014

Hi Stuart, I understand your logic (hence the "possibly" and "the two could
be related" in my email). I should have asked more clearly -- is it better
to focus on the profit margins or on the abuse of the monopoly position? My
benighted guess would be the latter.

Let's step back a bit -- Elsevier have a monopoly position because we, the
people, give them that. We publish with Elsevier. No one puts a gun to our
heads and makes us do it. Yet we do it. We do it knowing (perhaps not all
of us know that) that we will suffer later in terms of access.

If using Elsevier's profit margins to convince folks to not publish with
Elsevier is the goal, well ok. Otoh, focusing on the difficulties one might
face down the line accessing the papers, for example, for text and data
mining, that might make the issues more real for at least a segment of
researchers.

Not arguing against or for anything -- just throwing out things worth
thinking about.

On Wed, Apr 30, 2014 at 8:58 AM, Stuart Lawson <stuart.a.lawson at gmail.com>wrote:

> the two are definitely related; Elsevier charge whatever they can get away
> with because of their monopoly position with regards to owning content. if
> you don't like apple, you can buy an android; it's different, but is
> similar enough for most people's needs. so there is genuine competition. if
> you need to read an elsevier article, you (or your library) have no choice
> but to pay (unless there's a green open access version, or #icanhazpdf
> etc). elsevier et al's profit margins are a symptom of a dysfunctional
> market.
>
>
> On 30 April 2014 16:41, P Kishor <punk.kish at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> This conversation seems to have wandered from Elsevier abusing its
>> (possibly monopoly) position to Elsevier's profit margin. While the two
>> could be related, are us folks concerned that Elsevier is making money
>> hands-over-fist, or that they are not providing us with a satisfactory
>> solution? am curious. Case in point -- Apple's margins are around the same
>> as Elsevier's yet I have little to complain about and happily buy their
>> products in spite of alternatives (just not as good, in my view) of my my
>> own volition.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 30, 2014 at 8:37 AM, Song, Stephen <stephen.song at gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> On 30 April 2014 12:08, Graham Triggs <grahamtriggs at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 30 April 2014 14:45, Bjoern Brembs <b.brembs at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Someone needs to do an infographic on that and compare these margins
>>>>> to other industries...
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> What, you mean like this? (Comparison, rather than infographic. And
>>>> yes, it's a couple of years out of date)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://seekingalpha.com/article/269679-oil-industry-profit-margin-ranks-fairly-low-there-are-bigger-fish
>>>>
>>>
>>> Here is a long list from the Internet Information Provider world.  There
>>> is quite a variance.
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.macroaxis.com/invest/marketScreener/stockIndustry/operatingMargin/Internet_Information_Providers
>>>
>>>
>>> ..
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Puneet Kishor
>>
>>
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>>
>

-- 
Puneet Kishor
Manager, Science and Data Policy
Creative Commons
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