[wdmmg-discuss] a good e.g. of obtaining council accounts

Wed Jul 7 09:11:31 UTC 2010

They did the old trick of using section 41 and saying:

"the Oracle Applications database schema is provided to the Council in 
confidence by the Oracle Corporation and the disclosure of that 
information is likely to result in an actionable breach of confidence."

Have they checked with the supplier? Is it specifically written into the 
contract? You could ask for an internal review on this.

If you do this then point to the ICOs guidance on applying the S.43(2) 
exemption.

The council should have provided evidence that the supplier consider the 
release of the information would be prejudicial to their commercial 
interests. The ICOs guidance clearly states:

" The public authority must not speculate as to whether there is
any commercial detriment and the reasons why without any evidence
or input from the third party."

http://www.ico.gov.uk/upload/documents/library/freedom_of_information/detailed_specialist_guides/commercialdetrimentof3rdparties.pdf

As such I would ask for evidence that the Council have either:

* been in touch with the supplier specifically with respect to this
   request;

or

* provide a relevant excerpt from the contract between the authority and
   supplier which makes clear the information being sought would be
   commercially detrimental if released.

On Tue, 6 Jul 2010, Richard Pope wrote:

> I had this reply form Lambeth today (which I haven't fully read through yet):
>
> http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/training_materialsdocumentation#incoming-90833
>
> They denied access to the database schema but provided their training
> manuals. I could do with some help drafting the final request if
> anyone feels so inclined?
>
> Richard
>
> On Tue, Jul 6, 2010 at 1:07 PM, Lisa Evans <lisa.evans at okfn.org> wrote:
>> I'm meeting with 2 people from Cambridgeshire County Council tomorrow, to
>> talk about their accounting data and what they can share with us.
>>
>> If you have any questions then I'll ask for you -- just let me know.
>>
>> Here's some background on the accounting system they have at Cams County
>> Council.
>>
>> I found out the database used to store the council's accounts is a Fujitsu
>> Oracle system. Oracle Applications is on version 11.5.10.2 and the database
>> version is 10.2.0.3.0. I got this from here:
>> http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/databases_used_to_store_county_c#incoming-82248
>>
>> I've got some of the accounts database schema information:
>> http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/schema_for_the_fujitsu_oracle_da#incoming-82932
>>
>> I've got some idea of which tables are important:
>> http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/data_from_the_fujitsu_oracle_dat#comment-11028
>>
>> I have the training notes for using the accounting database:
>> http://www.archive.org/details/CambridgeshireCountyCouncilAccountsDatabaseTrainingMaterials
>>
>> That's all for now,
>>
>> Lisa
>>
>> On Mon, 28 Jun 2010, Lisa Evans wrote:
>>
>>> I've mentioned before on this mailing list that I've been requesting
>>> details of a few different council's accounts.
>>>
>>> My best result so far has been with Cambridgeshire County Council, as you
>>> can see here:
>>>
>>> http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/data_from_the_fujitsu_oracle_dat
>>>
>>> Mostly this is because I've been lucky to meet Andy on 'What do they
>>> know', who knows the account database tables well.
>>>
>>> So, I've got a meeting at Cambridgeshire county council to discuss the
>>> data we want -- this gives me a chance to show the wdmmg visualisations and
>>> explain the project.
>>>
>>> Let me know if you have suggestions for what to ask.  I should be meeting
>>> them with Andy, hopefully this Wednesday, and I'll keep you posted on how
>>> this goes.
>>>
>>> Lisa
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> wdmmg-discuss mailing list
>>> wdmmg-discuss at lists.okfn.org
>>> http://lists.okfn.org/mailman/listinfo/wdmmg-discuss
>>>
>>>
>>
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